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Frontline 11-07-2005 09:18 PM

Dorian Rows
I am thinking about incorporating some Dorian rows into my routine instead of regular barbell rows. I was wondering if anyone here has done them and whether they are worth switching to.

In case you don't know what I am talking about here is a description of the exercise from Dorian Yates himself:


Barbell rows are the primary mass builder and for good reason: My style of doing the movement ties into all areas of the back. I take an overhand grip on the bar--my hands are a little less than shoulder-width apart--and adopt a position in which my body is at a 70-degree angle to the floor. Most bodybuilders do barbell rows with their bodies parallel to the floor, pulling the bar into the chest. But if you want to hit the bulk of the lats and lift with max weight, align your upper body at a 70-degree angle and pull the bar up off the floor and lift it to the waist.
Seems to make sense.

Darkhorse 11-07-2005 10:39 PM

I don't like them because they limit the amount I can put on the bar. Plus, I feel it work my biceps and lower back way more than upper (which is where I want to focus on). I use JS Rows, which allows you to stay perfectly parallel to the floor for each rep, thus elliminating the use of my lower back. When I tried these "Yates" rows, but having my back 70 degrees makes it more of a spinal erector workout. I've had way too much success with JS Rows to ever consider anything else.

Have you ever tried JS?

Rows look at an anatomy chart. if the scapula and upper arms are held in a constant position, shortening of the lats WILL result in arching of the middle and upper back. i AM NOT saying that the lats are primarily responsible for upper back flexion... what i am saying is that they can assist in this.

i also HAVE done EMG work on various different rowing techniques... and there is not doubt that rows performed as i describe [JS] them will activate the lats more completely than done any other way i have ever seen. i have done EMG work on a large quantity of people for rows... and ive always found that these kind of rows activate the lats most completely. and besides, even if you dont buy the fact that they activate the lats better, hell, you can always be content with the fact that your getting an erector workout.

Darkhorse 11-07-2005 10:44 PM

Also keep in mind that you'll also hear quotes from 'Dorian Yates' himself saying to always lift at your maximum, ect....Unfortunately, he took his own advice about both failure training and lifting as close to your max per rep range as possible and that was why he was also the most injured bodybuilder.

IMO your back deserves the most heaviest possible movements to grow. (at least mine definately does.) That's why deadlifts and weighted pullups (overhand grip) prove to be the best for growth->They're also the heaviest.

I'd also like to see a EMG study done on these rows compared to reg. rows. The only EMG studies I saw show that the lats are hit the best with JS Rows.

Frontline 11-08-2005 09:10 AM

Never tried JS rows, just been doing regular so I thought it was time to try something new. I guess I can try them both out and see which I prefer.

Do you know where I can find a good description of how to perform JS rows? I've been looking but can't seem to find a layout for them anywhere.

EricT 11-08-2005 11:36 AM

Here is the JS ROWS description that 0311 originally posted:

This was a repost by Fortified Iron originally from Madcow1 that talks about getting the most from barbell rows. I think after trying a few different ways that this is the best IMO.

Rows: Well, the best way to do them is to start with the bar on the floor every single rep. Your middle back will have slight bend to it. You pull the bar off the floor quickly with the arms, and by a powerful arch of your middle back. You finish by touching the bar to your upper stomach or middle stomach. At no time is there any movement of the hips or knees, no hip extension at all, all that bends is the middle back and the shoulders and elbows.

This is hard to do and you have to have good muscular control to do it, or you'll end up straightening up at the hips along with the arching of the back. But if you can master doing them this way you will get a big back. This works because the lats actually extend (arch) the middle back in addition to other functions, just like with glute-ham extensions compared to leg curls…you always get a stronger contraction when you move both the origin and insertion of a muscle, flexing it from both ends so to speak.

The bar returns to the floor after each rep. The bent row is actually best done as an explosive movement and the bar is moved fast. I have trained many people who could do this exercise with 350 or more lbs. I myself (Madcow) have done reps with 425, Ed Coan, who also knows how to do them properly, has done reps with over 500lbs without his back ever coming above parallel with the ground. That is stronger than Dorian Yates or Ronnie Coleman, by the way.

I did rows with Coleman once, actually, and I was far stronger than he was. He could not do more than 350lbs strictly although he could do over 500lbs by standing almost all the way up at the completion of each rep. Ed Coan is probably the strongest person on these, although one power-lifter I trained did manage 525 for a double done strictly.

Frontline 11-08-2005 12:06 PM


BG5150 11-10-2005 10:56 AM


(and everyone else...)

Here is a link to a thread I started about JS Rows. It's got some pics on how to do them. I found it really helpful. You need to join the site and it may take a couple hours for your account to activate. So just sign up and come back in a few hours or the next day and you'll get it.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Frontline 11-10-2005 11:02 AM

LOL I feel like an ass with you guys posting links to my own board.

Someone should just reply with "It's called the search tool you stupid newb"

EricT 11-10-2005 11:35 AM

Nah, man, you work hard around here.

ChinPieceDave667 11-10-2005 03:25 PM


Originally Posted by Sleazy
LOL I feel like an ass with you guys posting links to my own board.

Someone should just reply with "It's called the search tool you stupid newb"

"It's called the search tool you stupid noob":p

hey, you asked for it;)

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