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Darkhorse 07-07-2008 09:24 PM

Westside 3 Day
Just wanted to share with ya'll what I'm having some extremely good success with. As you know, I'm cutting down with a modified TCD from redpoint w/ refeeds only once a week (as opposed to twice for gaining). I WAS doing the regular 4 day, but when you start adding in sled dragging and a deficit, it becomes A LOT.

So for anyone (including any fellow powerbuilders) here who wants something different to try, this can be interpretted a thousand different ways for a hundred different goals for many different people both big and small.

All you really have to do is KISS (keep it simple stupid) and listen to what your body is telling you. On ME days, you know two things.. First, what your maximal effort lift is. Second, areas you specifically need some work on. On DE days, you know the speed exercise, and weak points to work on. That's it. The common goal for all powerlifters is building your squat, bench, and deadlift. How you go about doing it is VERY individualistic.

The only thing that is set in stone is the rotating format, muscles worked, and GPP (for those of you that have a sled).

So an example week would look like this:

Monday: ME Bench (chest/shoulders/triceps)

Tuesday: LISS (low intensity steady state cardio)

Wednesday: ME Squat/Deads (back/biceps/legs)

Thursday: GPP

Friday: DE Bench (chest/shoulders/triceps)

Saturday: LISS or Rest (I usually like another GPP)

Sunday: LISS or Rest

(Monday: DE Squat/Deadlift (back/biceps/legs)

Like I said, just another way of going about it. I personally find this type of training more enjoyable simply because I'm usually wiped out and half-ass my back work in a traditional upper day. But placing it on a lower day, after a max or dynamic squat, your entire rest of the day is open to mutilate your hammies and back with accessory work via gluteham raises, reverse hypers, pullthroughs, ect as well as doing your upper back/rear delts which is extremely important if you really want some reversal power benching!

So if anyone's like I am sometimes and doesn't like walking in the gym with a list they don't really feel like completing, OR sometimes feel so amped up (for whatever reason) that they want to bust out some PR's, then don't let a piece of paper or a speadsheet stop you! In my experience, the days you're scheduled to slay a new PR usually are the ones that you slept like shit the night prior, or on the verge of catching a cold.. The days where not much is happening, you feel like Supercock. So whenever you get that itch, bring your camera! An example I will use is my dynamic days. Every once in a while, I get that feeling where I just caught 13 hours of sleep, went to Outback Steakhouse last night, and I'm listening to Slayer on the way to the gym.. That's a perfect storm right there lol. So I'll bust out maybe 4-5 speed sets, keep my bands on, and work up to what my body is telling me I should be hitting.

I wanted to share my thought process nowadays. I'm not going to post a disclaimer for newbies or anything like that because quite frankly, most newbies gravitate to volume, and wouldn't bother reading the entire thread after "only three days in the gym" LOL.

Pitysister 07-08-2008 04:57 AM

thanks for posting this....i might have to try this next....and i'll probably hit you up with some pm's :)

Darkhorse 07-08-2008 06:33 AM

Just post away bro.. I'd like to get this section running again! :D

MONSTAFACE 07-08-2008 08:51 AM

looks like a good spread. thnaks for postin it DH!!

hrdgain81 07-08-2008 09:33 AM

Very good info, I like your description too dan ... the perfect storm hahahah kick ass.

Darkhorse 07-08-2008 02:47 PM

I'll post some examples for both the powerlifter and powerbuilder tonight.. Surprisingly (prefix - not lol) not too much changes.

Pitysister 07-08-2008 03:00 PM

basically just curious about reps/sets...and what percentages to use...on both me and de days...

i'm gonna run SS for a little while longer..till i stall on everything probably...and then...find my maxes and start this. and i've wanted to get into more maximal work. and i've always wanted a fucking speed day :)

Darkhorse 07-08-2008 08:25 PM

ME days are basically doing a total of two sets greater than 90% of your max FOR THAT DAY. In other words, there won't be 1-3 RM's, but rather more work orientated. That goes for singles or triples. Personally, I much prefer my lighter set first (which is still heavy, but the lightest of the three), then my heaviest set second. For example, I just did 2 board presses the other day and ended up with 315, 365, 330 for singles (paused for a one count).. Definately not my max, but since I'm cutting it's more than I thought I'd get lol.

DE days I'd like to see anyone new to speed days err on the side of lighter weights lol. So if your bench press is 275 x 1, I'd start with 50% of that which would only be 135 lbs for 9 x 3 (45 seconds between sets). If you can easily do three reps in the time you can say, "one mississippi", then add a little more weight for next time. For beginners, I wouldn't really recommend the wave loading that I do only because you're learning and oftentimes it becomes too easy to sacrifice speed for weight which totally defeats the purpose. That said, if it's too easy, then by all means lol.

The key aspect to keep in mind is that you want a bigger bench, squat, and deadlift. By concentrating on that by doing variations, it yields a very high carryover to all your other "cosmetic" lifts. What I tend to do for supplemental work for my bench days is doing my DB presses with a neutral grip because of how much more it recruits more triceps into the lift. Sometimes I like doing that for seated DB presses as well. Additionally for my triceps, I like doing my first supplemental after my max effort bench a heavy triceps press vs. something more chest orientated since triceps are that important. Things like JM's, straight bar skullcrushers, rack lockouts, ect. Do that for a couple of months, then next thing you know when you gravitate towards an RE Bench day for a break, you'll be benching a lot more weight which bodes well for muscle mass.

Lower body is quite different. Using heavy squat variations followed by either a high rep deadlift variation (dimels, rack, SLDL) or better yet some gluteham raises (a lot of the time) to hammer your hammies will absolutely increase your conventional deadlift without even touching it. Again, I prefer a squat variation alternated with a deadlift variation.

And again, I must point out that beginners can and SHOULD work the actual lifts themselves whenever possible. Variations are more paramount for advanced lifters. So in your case, you could certainly do a max effort deadlift (conventional) for 2-3 weeks without a problem. Beginners and intermediates can definately get away with keeping the same lifts for a few weeks before rotating hands down. Shit, even now that I'm in deficit mode, I'm using a two week rotation hitting a 3 x 3, then a 3 x 1 before rotating.

Darkhorse 07-08-2008 08:45 PM

Powerlifting to Bodybuilding
You could do a lot of things while still being focused on increasing your numbers. I'll point out too that if I was to increase my calories with what I'm currently doing, I'd be gaining mass no problem. You could keep the speed days (for instance), then follow that up with some RE effort (hypertrophy) like bulgarian squats or lunges for 8-12 reps, or heavy leg presses for a few sets of 15's, ect. That train of thought right there is exactly what this thread is all about.

Few examples:

1) Instead of a 3 x 1, work some heavy triples, or a few sets of 5 reps for the maximal effort.. Or you could even do a 1-5 RM, followed by a heavy drop set of 6+ reps.

2) Typically for powerlifters, after the max effort bench is a max triceps exercise.. For bodybuilders, it would be a good idea to hit up a supplemental that focuses on chest pressing such weighted dips, DB presses, ect. In keeping with the "ME" spirit, I'd do a few heavy sets of 5's (pyramid or static for those who can tolerate it). Or you can keep the ME triceps press (like I would) and follow that up with something like DB Flyes for two sets of maximal reps. That way while your triceps are fryed, you can still work your chest.

3) Speed days could become RE days (repetition effort) meaning something more like what WS4SB does.. Like picking whatever weight for flat bench and busting out three max sets of AMAP (as many as possible). But, I'd recommend keeping the speed lift, then just following that up with RE the rest of the way.

Just keep in mind that the more you gravitate away from the powerlifting aspect, the more it's just another powerbuilding program loosely conjugate.. The only thing I'd keep conjugate obviously would be the ME lifts themselves. So for ME lower, I'd alternate a squat variation, then a deadlift, squat, ect.

All that being said, I personally still believe "optimally" I'd keep four days per week training. I only posted a three day that I'm doing simply to show that even while in fat loss mode, you can still continue increasing strength via powerlifting. And all these options I posted above really don't have to be employed if you're wanting more hypertrophy in all honesty. For example, noone's stopping you from following up a max effort exercise with a few high rep sets. If that's what I was after, I could do something like board pressing for singles, then strip the weight down to 225 and just rep out. Done deal.

Most importantly, this whole thread was designed with the intention that everyone has needs, and whatever you decide to do, whether an exercise like db flyes is frowned upon or not (:D), if you need the work for your pecs, and your triceps are done, don't sit there and struggle doing another press.. :arg: Now, I completely understand that people should NOT tackle programs that are too big for their britches so to speak. But, what I have found watching a lot of journals unfold through all the different websites is that either they're doing a set program that doesn't address their needs, or more frequently that they're so fucking bored with "meat and potatoes" training that they have zero motivation to walk in the gym and own the fucking day! Should they stick to it? Perhaps, but if mentally they're not in the game because they don't like one or more aspects of what's expected out of them, then why bother? Weightlifting is a very tough and demanding sport, but there really ought to be a few elements of fun or excitement to get the motivation running high IMHO.

iron_worker 07-09-2008 11:50 AM

Some excellent reading in here. I might incorporate this knowledge into my up and coming program change.


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