DR. X - school me on fenugreek.

[Nathan1]

Interesting study found...please tell me as a fenugreek advocate what you think of this....i have used fenugreek in PCT and "felt" it contributed, but i really don't KNOW for sure. ;)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

Evaluation of the potential antifertility effect of fenugreek seeds in male and female rabbits.

Kassem A, Al-Aghbari A, Al-Habori M, Al-Mamary M.

Department of Animal Production, Faculty of Agriculture, University of Sana`a, Sana`a, Republic of Yemen.

OBJECTIVE: The objective of this study was to evaluate the potential antifertility activity of feeding diets containing 30% fenugreek seeds to male and female white New Zealand rabbits. RESULTS: The data presented in this study clearly demonstrate an antifertility effect of fenugreek seeds in the female rabbits and more of a toxicity effect in the male rabbits. In males, testis weight was reduced, with evident damage to the seminiferous tubules and interstitial tissues as shown by the histopathology of testis tissue sections. In addition, the plasma concentration of the androgen hormone and sperm concentrations were halved in the treated animals. In the case of the females, there was evidence of a significant reduction of developing fetuses as observed by reductions of both fetal and placental weights at 20 days of gestation and of the litter size. This was further supported histopathologically by the observed proliferative changes of the endometrial glands. The circulating plasma progesterone concentrations at 10 and 20 days of gestation significantly increased with no significant effect on the prebreeding estrogen concentrations in the treated animals.

[Nathan1]

here's what i posted in response on another board, which covers how i feel.


http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...80&postcount=8

[EricT]

No offence, but why don't you just pm Dr X?

*Edit* Sorry, It's not my business what you do. I would just point out that this is a forum community and so the pm function is there for addressing individual members.

Wouldn't you like to hear anyone else's response?

[Nathan1]

Originally Posted by Eric3237

No offence, but why don't you just pm Dr X?

*Edit* Sorry, It's not my business what you do. I would just point out that this is a forum community and so the pm function is there for addressing individual members.

Wouldn't you like to hear anyone else's response?

i would LOVE to hear others' responses, just wanted to make sure i got Dr. X's attention as he is a big proponent of fenugreek. Sorry, i should have said it differently.

Bring on the thoughts, comments, etc.

and I don't PM people unless it's something personal, urgent, etc. no reason.

[EricT]

Gotcha. It IS hard to get his attention sometimes

Actually, I don't have much to say about Fenugreek as far as pct goes. I only posted because I've seen it so many times at other forums where people turn it into a personal chat room, if you know what I mean. I know you weren't doing that, though.

I wouldn't speak on pct but I'm not ignorant when it comes to herbs so if theres any other aspect of fenugreek you're thinking of post that and maybe I'll have some thoughts. Sorry I couldn't be of much help.

[Dr X]

Your not a bunny. From everything that I know (which ain’t much ) it is completely safe for human consumption and no reported ill effects to date.

Fenugreek is an important source of diosgenin, which is widely used in the production of steroids.
The fenugreek herb has numerous health benefits, including increased libido, elevated testosterone and increased insulin release. As with Tribulus terrestris, this herb contains a high amount of furostanolic saponins. Therefore, fenugreek works in a manner similar to Tribulus--elevating testosterone via increases in the amount of LH and DHEA the body produces.

Great to use in the few couple of weeks during your PCT along with whatever protocol you are using to get the boys quickly up and running.

As a side note: if you are worried about toxicity fenugreek is nothing compared to most of the stuff we injest.

[Nathan1]

thanx for the response X....this is all what i basically thought...



....a new question has arisen in my household now....

my wife is currrently taking 4.5g/day for increased supply as we have a 3 month old little girl.

she just noticed today somehow that on the bottle it says the following:


".....Do not use if you are pregnant, nursing, or may become pregnant."

this is one of the sole purposes for women using fenugreek and there is plenty of info to support this use of it. Is this ONLY for liability purposes or was there an original reason they put this on the labels? (it's the same on my NOW brand fen. and CNW's so that's why i'm wondering if it's just FDA regulations or some shiat).

thanx!

[EricT]

Originally Posted by Nathan

".....Do not use if you are pregnant, nursing, or may become pregnant."

this is one of the sole purposes for women using fenugreek and there is plenty of info to support this use of it. Is this ONLY for liability purposes or was there an original reason they put this on the labels?

You're right it IS a pretty standard warning. You'll find similar warnings on many, many herbs, if not on the labels then at least in herbal resources like pdr's.

With Fenugreek, the pregnancy warning is there for a reason, since it has the possibility of causing uterine contractions and premature labor. But as far as the lactation, it's more of a "until more research is available" type of warning. It is because you can't be sure how it affects the child when it gets into the milk (and it probably will). In fact the other standard warning is not to give it to children.

Now, as far as I know, nothing bad has been reported in terms of negative effects on infants or children. Of course, there is always a chance of an allergic reaction. I'll let you know if I come accross anything.

Here is info on Fenugreek and Breastfeeding.

Your wife might want to look at this site in general.

Edit* I forgot to say: Congragulations!

[Darkhorse]

Originally Posted by Eric3237

You're right it IS a pretty standard warning. You'll find similar warnings on many, many herbs, if not on the labels then at least in herbal resources like pdr's.

With Fenugreek, the pregnancy warning is there for a reason, since it has the possibility of causing premature labor. But as far as the lactation, it's more of a "until more research is available" type of warning. It is because you can't be sure how it affects the child when it gets into the milk (and it will). In fact the other standard warning is not to give it to children.

Now, as far as I know, nothing bad has been reported in terms of negative effects on infants or children. Of course, there is always a chance of an allergic reaction. I'll let you know if I come accross anything.

Damn, I cannot keep up with you guys!! Good stuff...

[Nathan1]

thanx for the info Eric...much appreciated!

and 0311/Eric, thanx for the kudos! kids rule! (most of the time ;) )