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I was kidding of course. I also don't believe that there are any undiscovered "magic bullets" that can be significantly different from what we already know. My curiosity's up though so what is it?

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"Perago Validus"

sorry Iron I should have known u were kidding! sorry dude.. thought u were saying it wont work.. I totally agree and it really surprised me that it works as well as it does.

I tell u what... give me less than 2 months and in that time.. I will use this training program and products and then see if you think its any good going by my before picture I took! Then if u want I will tell u what it is if u think its good.

I will order this on Monday... so will take about 1 week from now before I start. Remember I'm 187lbs at the moment of pure fat! and no muscle definition as I havent trained for a year and look terrible!

I wont take any other products apart from some Whey... I am ony taking some Sida Cordifolia at the moment as a dietary product.

I'll let u know when I start... if I stil look a fat dude...I will let you tell me you told me so!

^ this way... one of us will be right without being miss-guided or speculating, it will be good or it will be bad!

Wow, this is a long thread. I kinda laughed when I saw the discussion about whether the 5x5's were full-body. When every joint in your body is used in one workout...you can't get much more full body.

Here's a fullbody workout:

Squats
Bench/Press
Pullups/Rows

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.

Eric, Thanks.. its because I'm new to this full body workout thing and used to doing split (a long time ago before I got lazy). I was used to training individual muscles and not seeing them listed this way as.. barbell curls, reverse curls, Tricep extentions, calf raises, abs crunches etc etc it didnt look full body workout.. if u know what i mean cheers for the info.

I know where you were coming from. And I wasn't making fun It's just weird how our thinking becomes corrupted sometimes. People doing body part SPLITS begin to view the body as a collection of individual parts or muscles. Therefore if you are not doing an exercise to "isolate" each of these individual parts you are not doing the whole body...I get it.

doing body part SLITS? hmmmm....

I don't get it, what's so funny? I'm talking about things that separate different individual muscles into different days and use various isolations to increase the volume to each "muscle". Commonly referred to as a body part split. As opposed to the kind of fullbodies we're talking about that use compound functinal movements, where you train movements instead of body parts so that GROUPS of muscle work together to illicit a greater training response and where the frequency of training those movements increase and thus the frequency of hitting those muscle increase with the advantage of greater intensity as opposed to high volume and where isolations are optional....just like the Rippetoe that Sentinel laid out....clear enough?

P.S. just trying to keep the OP from being confused by inuendo...whether intentional or not

Eric, chill bro, I was just making a joke albeit a stupid one! when you were talking about splits you accidentally spelled it "s l i t s". You had written "do body part SLITS" instead of "SPLITS."

Sorry just some stupid Monday morning humor! ;)

That's why I need the edit function. I write too fast and read to fast . Unless you had pointed it out I never would have noticed the difference even though you wrote it in caps. But I only explained cuz I didn't get it and thought maybe the OP wouldn't get it either, lol. A split can become a slit.