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HI Guys going to start the 5x5 advance routine tomorrow but i quite dont understand when you reach the 5-8 week how the heel to you gain muscle mass if your only doing 3 rep in all workouts ,i believe that to achieve good muscle mass you must be doing reps from 5-8 and for STRENGHT reps from 1-4, so from the 5th week onwards your only donig 3 reps!!!!. Can anyone tell me if i am correct if so i may not do this routine my aim is to add musle mass for the next 12 weeks not only for 4 weeks

Thanx Jay

You need to read all the info not just look at the routine.

Once you do that it should be pretty clear. Judging by your questions in the past on diet and training it seems you're still struggling with the basics. You want to go to an advanced periodized routine but you don't understand the purpose of it. It seems an epidemic to me with people going to advanced routines thinking they're going to get advanced results when they have been dissatisfied with their results in the past. One of the hallmarks of being 'advanced' is that you are no longer able to make quick progress.

Yet if you don't have diet and lifestyle down then you cannot truly judge progress. I'm not saying you are not needing more advanced routines but that you need to more thoroughly educated yourself.

Here's the thing that so many people that do this stuff before it's necessary don't realize. Once you get into this high volume loading and peaking and you do that before it's necessary you could basically be setting yourself up for more and more complexity in order to get basic results way before such complexity should have been necessary. You'll be always 'blasting away' at a relatively young training age and when you get to an older training age, or just plain older....where do you go? This is not just for you, Jazon but just a general thing.

These programs in their original forms were NEVER meant to be viewed as cookie cutters.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.

^^^^ he's right, it's all there. It is a good program, so make sure you understand (read) and if you do make it to the 8th week or more then you will have made huge gains.

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So then what do you suggest i should do truthfully!!!!

Thanx Jay

Well that's the thing, it's hard for someone to truly suggest what you should do without having a whole lot of info about you. You have to try to assess yourself realistically. Honestly, you can tell a lot simply from the kind of weight you can put up and where that is compared to a year ago, a couple of years ago, etc. That is the importance of a logbook.

For instance, when your first started training did you make very quick progress for a while and that progress has slowed in recent time? Or did you never really make good progress at all? With all this you have to consider BEHAVIOUR.

You did some type of 5x5. I take it it was an intermediate routine. Unless you are pretty advanced you should have gotten some good results and put up some nice PR's. If you didn't you either didn't run it right or it's behavioural. But a successful run should give you a lot of info. If you are not really able to learn from that info then that in itself is a clue to training experience.

I just re-posted in the DFT sticky (which 0311 had posted before), Madcow's writeups (link) on all this. Go and read all of that. That will help you determine where you are at. And I mean ALL of it.

Well just to let you know my fellow teachers I have started again the 5x5 Intermediate routine again and next year i will do the advanced ,its better to be truth to yourself when taking decisions and not trying to get the fastest way around and then realising that you made a mistake for being such an ass hole.

Just a couple of questions:

The bodypart which lacks behind most and its the least that has grown since i started bodybuilding its my favourite and that my ARMS. They were 12.3 inches in April 2006 by December i got to 14 inches ,not bad i think but they are still slim arms .when i do the 5x5 i only hit arms once a week on Fridays 3sets of ez bar curls 8reps 3 sets of alternating d/b curls 8reps or preacher 8reps too but total for bicep 6 set ,2 exercise .Tricep close grip 4 sets 8 reps then 4 sets pushdowns or skull crushers -total of 8 sets ,2 exercise.
( Is that ok!!! ) any suggestions if i could inprove on my arms PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S Thanx for helping make the best decision,your all real friends!!

Thanx Jay

With the 5*5 program I know it seems like your not hitting your arms much, but in all honesty when your doing your rows your biceps are getting a good workout. And when you doing your Presses your Triceps are getting a good workout.

So by targeting your arms on Friday with 8 sets (tri's) 6-8 (bic's). That is plenty. I did this program too and my arms grew about 1/2 " in 8 weeks. I think that's a fair gain in little time. Yours might grow more, I don't know.
I do know that they are a small muscle so you may have been over training them in the past which can result in a standstill or even worst a loss in size.

Just stick to the program, have some patience and you will see improvements ( at least others around you will).

Talo is right.

Let me give your a reality check on the arms. I'll bet you any amount, judging by what you said, that their growth is keeping pace with the rest of you.

The MAIN point of this program is the big lifts. Weekly progression on them for ever how long. This is not a program to work on beach muscles. Arms are accessory. That means something that complements or helps complete something else. If you can do the arm work (and what you did is way too much IMO) and that either helps or doesn't hurt your progression. Then fine. Anything else, forget it. On abs, however, some people view them as accessory but I view them as essential. You need to keep the core stabilizers as strong as possible.

When you bring all those lifts up close to your full potential, you probably won't have small arms . That's how it works. For most people a little work here and there and a little emphasis here and there (maybe on a program designed to bring up weaknesses) necessary. But there is no need to obsess.

Another thing is if you did the that Madcow listed, it's an example. You can do other things and you can change this one. For instance you can do chin-ups and that will provide more emphasis to your biceps. As a matter of fact since you've done it once you can probably get away with some bodyweight sets of chinups to near failure on your "light" day, higher reps and increasing them up to about 12. Or you can do rows one day and chins the other if you don't want the extra on wednesday. You would just change the way you manager your progression. I would advise you to try a straight bar curl this time around on your isolation work however, providing your forearms are up to it.

Another reality check. I don't know your height and weight so it's a guess, but someone with 14 inch arms probably isn't very close to an advanced level. When you're done with this there are other things you can do to continue progressing in this type of training.

For instance, you don't have to always do ramped sets. You may choose to do 5x5 sets accross on Monday followed by a light and medium day. Or if that's too much too fairly light days. They would be designed to keep neural activity and to help the Monday 5x5 move along. There is all sorts of things you can do in there and still be within the intermediate framework. This would probably entail adding more volume as you advance.

Upper/Lower is always a choice and this can fit in as well.

Thanx guys for your support hearing positive words from you guys give me a really good boost for wednesday workout. Last time i did the 5x5 i was on it for nearly 3 months and went over my bench and squat 5rm for 10 kilos,then i stopped for xmas break STUPID me when i was gettin to my best i stopped. Well this time im going for 5 months hopefully then stop do normal mass routine ,Then cut abit with higher reps and on September start again 5x5. Next year with my 17 inch i`ll start with the advance Deal Bro`s

One more thing seated cable rows are a good exercise for me i really lift big weight about 110kg dont know why but its to much for me i think, its that a good exercise for hitting also the Biceps. For squat and bench i do 90 kg FOR 5 REPS thats to were i reached last time i stopped in December

P.s i am 28 ,5ft7 and the best muscle i have i my shoulders and chest but mainly shoulders i have to much i think for my arms that why i want my arms bigger.

Well Thanx anyway Guys REALLY appreciated

Jay

One of the biggest reasons people lift big weight for cable rows is cuz they are able to cheat their ass off. They put their lower back into it and then lean back to help get the arms back and all that.

Stick with Pendlay rows (from the floor) and you won't be sorry.

I don't know what your 'normal' mass routine is but it is pretty paramount that whatever you do in addition to this kind of training be designed to spur further strength gains or at least maintain strength. Going to a hypertrophy routine then back to the 5x5 without keeping this in mind would be spinning your wheels.

You didn't mention your weight and your lifts on squat, bench, and deadlift. Provide that (if you want) and I can give you a "fairly" good estimate of your training age.