Go Back   Bodybuilding.net - Bodybuilding Forum > Main Forums > Training


A2G Smith Squats with the Sleeper



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-07-2006, 07:45 AM
Sleeper's Avatar
Sleeper Sleeper is offline
Rank: New Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 43
Send a message via Yahoo to Sleeper
Thumbs up A2G Smith Squats with the Sleeper

Hey Iron Fans,
I started out training with the old barbell and squating to parallel like all old timers. I then graduated to using knee wraps. Not the cheap peices of crap but Gold Lines then Red Devils. I worshipped the power squat always doing it on Sunday afternoons. It was like a ritual. I still think all new traineeds need to pay their dues by doing nothing but squats and leg curls, nuff said,...
I then went to hack squats but eventualy they did a number on my knees becuase I still had that powerlifter mentality. I used knee wraps. My knees just got worse.
I then went back to power squats but I git so tired of asking for spots all the time. I have always noticed most people are pretty much useless for spotting on squats anyway. I think a spotter is more of a mental crutch. I have dumped the bar tons of times in a power rack and out of a power rack.
I read an article from some joker here in Phoenix Az called Peloquin, who condems the Smith Machine as a peice of crap. He rambles on and on about how it doesnt work the stabelizer muscles, yadda, yadda, yadda. I saw this guy once and I was disappointed. He isnt that massive at all. I think a person needs to practice what they preach. I have never seen him train that hard and allot of his clients are rich assholes from Scottsdale.
I recently started doing rock bottom squats in the Smith. I am no Ron Coleman but last weekend I took 4 plates a side all the way down paused for a second then all the way up six times. I am talking A2G not parallel like allot of so called Peloquin disciples.
After the second set I was getting so nausious and dizzy it was crazy. I couldnt even speak to anyone. I was lucky to just catch my breath and get ready for another set. I was doing these with no knee raps and no annoying spotter. I would just look straight ahead and pray for another rep. You have to go down about 20lbs after the first set. I would love to see some of these so called hard core gurus take a decent weight A2G pause for a sec them come up with no theatrics.
Yes theatrics, I see some people make all kinds of ding bat noises, which just wastes energy the could use on concentrating on each rep. I believe when you start your set you should only worry about the rep at hand, not the next rep. I think a trainee should never hold back on any rep. Each rep is a victory and each set is a milestone.
I see people, who squat with knee wraps and have spotter hold on to them like their ball room dancing and then I look at their quads and hams and can see why.
So, all I can say is if you think smith squats are stupid, then go ahead. I just love to see people try heavy A2G smioth squats with some decent weight. This movement is not for light wieghts by any means.
Have fun
Sleeper
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-07-2006, 08:21 AM
EricT EricT is offline
Rank: Heavyweight
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,314
Default

Bro, what can I say? I do heavy ass A2G squats with a barbell. No knee wraps. No belt. No spotter. Just me and a squat rack.

I don't agree with everything that Poliquin says but I can tell you you need to stop worrying about peoples size and think about what they know about physiology that you don't. Poliquin may not be your cup of tea but he is certainly not a joke. He may be wrong about parallel squats but his is following a party line that is shared by many trainers. That doesn't make him wrong about everything.

Just because a machine allows you to lift more weight does not make it a good idea or superior. You said you've been doing parallels with knee wraps then you post a question about A2G's and now you're preaching the smith machine. The reason people gravitate toward a smith machine to do all levels of squats is because they can't handle a heavy bar on the back and don't have the necessary core strength and those "stabilizers" you so easily dismissed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeper
So, all I can say is if you think smith squats are stupid, then go ahead. I just love to see people try heavy A2G smioth squats with some decent weight. This movement is not for light wieghts by any means.
There may be legitimate reasons for using a smith but for most it's a prop. I can put a whole lot more weight on a leg press than a squat bar. Do I think leg press is superior? Quite the opposite. I think it is inferior. A supplementay exercise. Anybody who is just starting out and is trying to go a low as possible on the squat can probably put more weight on the smith. So a beginner being able to use more weight on it makes it for the "heavy hitters"? Not a logical argument and quite the opposite is true, in fact.

The smith machine forces your body into a unnatural fixed plane of motion. That's screw up your knees, back, etc.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
or
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-07-2006, 08:28 AM
Sleeper's Avatar
Sleeper Sleeper is offline
Rank: New Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 43
Send a message via Yahoo to Sleeper
Default I agree Eric

Eric,
Thank for the reply. I see your point. I didnt mean my post to be a dig on some trainees. I just find that 90% of the so called experts are bags of wind. I rarely ever see people go rock bottim and go ALL OUT. I see you say that you go rock bottom with free wieghts, that awesome but you are diffenently not on the norm. I just got a kick out of that guy, especialy when I saw him. He glanced at me when I was training and looked away. I have noticed that not too many people if any squat either free wieght or smith A2G so I would say 99% of people that say they do are telling tall tales. Good luck on the deep squating!
Thanks
Sleeper
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-07-2006, 08:33 AM
Sleeper's Avatar
Sleeper Sleeper is offline
Rank: New Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 43
Send a message via Yahoo to Sleeper
Default Smith and Free Squats

I have noticed that the Smith Machine doesnt realy allow me personaly to squat any heavier than free. I use it becuase I dont have any spotters that are worth a hill of beans and I dont want to get hurt at this stage of the game. As one gets older you can either not train close to failure and use free weights and make very few mass gains or use a smith and train closer to failure. The only way one can train close to failure with free weights is using a spotter or messing up your back when you are alone. Just my opinion. I do recommend free weights when you are younger and have plenty of training patrners.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-07-2006, 08:54 AM
EricT EricT is offline
Rank: Heavyweight
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,314
Default

Yeah. Truthfully I stopped paying attention to what other people do in the gym a long time ago simply due to the fact that I don't go to a gym. It's just me, my basement, a rack, a pulley and a whole lot of free weights.

But I'm not a spring chicken myself and I can certainly attest to the fact that your body becomes a whole lot less forgiving as you grow older. But usually when I do hurt myself or at least "screw something up" it is my own fault. Not because I'm using free weights but because I mis-used them.

There are a lot of people here who say they go A2G with free weight and they are just about the only people I listen to anyway! Now I did notice that I could put more on a smith machine squat but you know I really don't know if that's true for everyone. I was probably talking out my ass on that one.

It is my opionion that you'd be more likely to mess up your back or knees or whatever in a smith machine no matter what your age. But I'm not going to try and convince you! I've put my body through hell over the years and not just because of weightlifting...if I get hurt I have no one to blame but myself.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-07-2006, 09:00 AM
Sleeper's Avatar
Sleeper Sleeper is offline
Rank: New Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 43
Send a message via Yahoo to Sleeper
Default Thank Eric good luck good job

Hey Eric,
Nothing better than heaaring from an honest iron Warrior veteran! Whew I wish I could go back to having my own weights, maybe someday. Its the best way to go bar none. I also like it when its just me and maybe a good friend that has the same goals in my personal home gym with my own 80s tunes. LOL. Keep up the honest post evals.
Sleeper
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-07-2006, 09:12 AM
hrdgain81's Avatar
hrdgain81 hrdgain81 is offline
Rank: Light Heavyweight
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,713
Default

Quote:
The reason people gravitate toward a smith machine to do all levels of squats is because they can't handle a heavy bar on the back and don't have the necessary core strength and those "stabilizers" you so easily dismissed.
Or in my case because you simply cant go low enough without the use of the machine. I'll admit my form is god aweful on A2G squats, my hips dont allow me to dip down low enough without my back rounding out. I've had hip problems since birth, and its just now bit me in the ass. using the smith allows me to keep my back straight, almost leaning backward, the difference is night and day.

I will agree that I really dont give two shits what someone else is doing in the gym. Unless its something amazing, i wont even look twice. I throw on my head phones, and get down to business.
__________________
I don't do this for my family, my friends, women, accolades, pride, or ego. I do it for me and no one else, its just part of who I am.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-07-2006, 09:23 AM
EricT EricT is offline
Rank: Heavyweight
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,314
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardgain
Or in my case because you simply cant go low enough without the use of the machine. I'll admit my form is god aweful on A2G squats, my hips dont allow me to dip down low enough without my back rounding out. I've had hip problems since birth, and its just now bit me in the ass. using the smith allows me to keep my back straight, almost leaning backward, the difference is night and day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric
There may be legitimate reasons for using a smith but for most it's a prop.
Absolutely Hard, you know I would never make an absolute statement I hope. I think that the kind of problem you have is very, very rare but there it is. But this is exactly the kind of thing I was thinking of when I made the above statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeper
also like it when its just me and maybe a good friend that has the same goals in my personal home gym
That is one thing that I am missing. There is just not anyone for me to lift with. I'm not going to give up my home gym to find a training partner because I love it but having someone would be a great help.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-07-2006, 09:29 AM
Sleeper's Avatar
Sleeper Sleeper is offline
Rank: New Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 43
Send a message via Yahoo to Sleeper
Default Retired Military at the gym

Hey guys,
I started training at the Air Force base I retired from the USAF last year and I can say I love the atmosphere. No premdonnas and a nice queit atmosphere. Its not a home gym but closer than the Worlds Gym here in Phoenix AZ. I can telll you, Troy Alves is probably on of the nicest Pros going. He trains at the Phoenix WOrlds, Ive know him for a few years. No arroagance their. I miss being around the guy for advise. He is ripped all the time. He might by juicing but he is no dick.
Later
Sleeper
Reply With Quote
Reply

  Bodybuilding.net - Bodybuilding Forum > Main Forums > Training


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes



 



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.