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Dr X · #11 12-05-2005, 01:54 PM

I started this last week and let me tell you. I have a whole new feeling to the word pain. Some of the soreness is like I just started lifting weights. Actually all of the upper body parts were sore for a couple of days and subsided. Nothing I can't deal with but legs, O my God. I couldn't walk normal for 3 days later. All I did was 135lbs for the 10X10. doing them was easy enough although some what of a challenge but the pain after was amazing. In fact all my lifts I used some caution on the weight and chose to stay a little lighter just to see how I would react. I can clealy see where I can up the weight and move forward with this.

It's amazing, you start out and do your set and think, damm this is to light, what a waste of time. Your not saying that around set 8 I'm here to tell you.

Today I tried doing dips for chest and the last three sets I made it to eight or nine so I'm sure my chest will be crying tomorrow.

Another thing to add Is I'm carb cycling. Low carbs on my off days with medium to high carbs on lifting days. Not sure how that will work with recovery but everything seems fine.

I'll let you know if I benefit from any of this or not.

Thanks for the great post 0311 but I'm not sure if I'll be shoveling down 40g of BCAA's.

Darkhorse · #12 12-06-2005, 05:27 PM

Speaking of all things GVT, Vince Gironda also has a very hard program that has for the most part the same design. The difference is some of his more popular methods including the "Honest Man's Workout" focus on 8x8, but with very limited rest between sets. By very, I mean 15-30 seconds. He advocated not letting go of the weights, just rack them or keep them on your knees.

For more on the actual routine, Click Here!

Quote:

How it works

8 sets of 8 is a high volume, fast tempo, size building workout. It is not designed for strength development - it's purely for bodybuilding or "cosmetic" improvements. 8 sets of 8 will also help you get leaner. The short rest intervals stress the cardiovascular system to the point where calories are burned, the metabolism is stimulated, hormones are stirred up and fat is melted away.

Here's how it works: You will select three or four exercises per muscle group and perform 8 sets of 8 on each exercise. Yes - that's 24 to 32 sets per body part! You will work two or three muscle groups per session and rest only 15 to 30 seconds between sets. Each workout will be completed in approximately 45 minutes and never more than 60 minutes.

Although this apparently excessive volume might seem reminiscent of the Steve Michalik and John Defendis "Intensity or Insanity" style of training - it's NOT the same thing. These are not two or three hour marathon workouts. You are completing this routine in under an hour. The reason this doesn't constitute overtraining is because you're not exceeding the workout duration that begins having a negative effect on recovery and anabolic hormones. You are simply overloading the muscles by condensing more training into less time.

Why it works: More work in less time = higher intensity and bigger muscles

Many people are under the impression that the only way to make a muscle larger is to increase the amount of weight you use. This is not true. Overload is an absolute requirement to build muscle, but the overload can come in more ways than one. Progressively adding weight may be one of the best ways to provide an overload, but it's not the only way. Vince was all in favor of adding weight to the bar, (provided good form was maintained), but he believed that performing more work in less time was a better method of overload.

The Iron Guru's advice: "To acquire larger muscles you must increase the intensity of work done within a given time. This means minimum rest between sets. Push yourself. I feel workouts should be timed and you should constantly strive to shorten the time it takes to get through your routine. This is another form of progressive resistance, and is more important than raising your weights. This principle of overload explains why sprinters have bigger muscles than distance runners. Although it's more work to run a mile than it is to run 100 yards, the sprinter is doing more work per second. Consequently, his muscles will become larger."

Why use 8 sets of 8 instead of "conventional" training?

The most popular method of training for advanced bodybuilders is to choose between two and four exercises per muscle group and perform three or four sets of 6-12 reps on each exercise. The rest intervals range from 60 seconds to four minutes, depending on the goal. So why bother with such an "outrageous" program as 8 sets of 8?

The answer is because this type of "honest," high volume, fast tempo training will be a complete shock to your body, especially in the beginning when you are unaccustomed to it. An advanced bodybuilder will adapt to any training program within a matter of months and often within just weeks. Once adaptation occurs, you must seek out new types of stress to coax your muscles into continued growth. Although Vince did not advocate over-training in any way, shape or form, he did advocate using "muscle confusion" for stimulating gains, even if this meant, "temporarily overtraining." 8 sets of 8 is simply an unusual and effective method of overload and muscle confusion.

Obviously, this program is not intended for constant use. It's a "shock routine" you can use for brief periods to kick-start a new growth spurt when you need it most. After completing a cycle of 8 sets of 8, you can go back to more conventional methods. How long should you use 8 sets of 8? As long as it keeps working.

Another advantage of 8 sets of 8 is that it can be used to work around an injury. Heavy training with 5-6 rep maxes is impossible when you're babying a strain, pull or soft tissue injury. But you can do 8 sets of 8 because you get such an "honest" workout with a fraction of your usual weight.

8 sets of 8 is a fantastic method for pre-contest definition training because 50-60 sets in under an hour is decidedly aerobic. You can easily count each weight training session as a cardio workout. Fast-metabolism types may not even need any other aerobic work while using 8 sets of 8.

How much rest between sets?

Vince advocated "a very businesslike approach towards tempo." He said that using the 8 sets of 8 format is not enough to ensure muscle gains. What's more important is the speed with which you get through the program. "Minimum rest between sets is a must," said the master. When Vince was training Mohammed Makkawy for the Olympia, he had Mohammed conditioned to the point of doing 8 sets in as little as 5 minutes or less.

Your goal is to reduce your rest intervals to 30 seconds or less, ultimately cutting them down to just 15-20 seconds between each set. Once your conditioning has adjusted to the demands, you'll need just five to ten deep breaths between each set, then it's on to the next set.

If your tempo on each exercise is 2-0-2-0 (2 second eccentric, no pauses and two second concentric), then each rep will take you four seconds. Eight reps per set means that each set will take you 32 seconds. With a 15-20 second rest interval, 24 sets will take only 18 to 21 minutes to complete and 32 sets will take 25 to 28 minutes to complete.

Tempo tips

The proper tempo combined with the correct resistance is the key to the success of this program. Vince defined optimal tempo as "the evenly spaced sets (time-wise) without any distractions and complete concentration on when to pick up the next weight and do the next set."

This means no magazine reading, no walking around the gym, no gossiping, no changing the CD in your Walkman, and no - not even going to the bathroom. This program requires 100% total concentration. If you get interrupted or distracted, you might as well pack up your gym bag and go home.

Do not put the dumbbells down between sets. Rest them on your knees, but don't put them down or re-rack them. Also, don't release the bar between sets; rack it, but keep your hands on it. If you're using straps, don't unwrap them. Stay on the bench or machine until all 8 sets of 8 are completed. Take no rest between body parts. When you finish the last exercise for the first muscle group, move directly into the first exercise for the next muscle group.

By the way, to follow these tempo guidelines means you'll have to ditch your training partner. This program must be done alone.

How much weight?

Using 15-20 second rest intervals will limit the amount of weight you can use, but that's ok. Initially, there will be a large drop in your normal training poundages. Most people will need to reduce their normal 8 rep max by about 40% to successfully complete 8 sets with such brief rest intervals. For example, if you normally perform dumbbell flyes with 55 pounds for 8 reps with a 60 - 90 second rest interval, you're going to have to reduce your weight to about 35 pounds to successfully complete 8 sets of 8 with 15-30 second rest intervals.

you become more conditioned, it will amaze you how much weight you will be able to build back up to while maintaining the short rest interval. Amazingly, you may even get close to your original poundage. At this point, some serious growth will begin to occur.

Proper weight selection is critical. The first workout should be made intentionally easy. If you attempt too much weight too quickly, you won't be able to complete 8 reps on the last several sets nor will you be allowing room for progression over a period of weeks. Vince cautioned that the same weight for all eight sets is imperative. If you fail on the sixth or seventh rep on the last set or two, that's fine, but if your reps drop below 8 by your 4th or 5th set, the weight you selected is too heavy.

Darkhorse · #13 12-06-2005, 07:29 PM

Here's almost the exact same thing as GVT, but this one is from Hugo Rivera. Looks pretty close to plagarism, but I have to post it since it's basically a GVT program: His website is Here!

Quote:

This is supposed to be a hypertrophic volume phase lasting 6 weeks from a book by Hugo Rivera.

MONDAY - Chest/Back/Traps

Superset #1
Incline Barbell Press 10 reps x 10 sets
no rest
Wide Grip Chins 10 reps x 10 sets
1 minute rest

Superset #2
Chest Dips 15-20 reps x 2 sets
no rest
Close Grip Chins 15-20 reps x 2 sets
1 minute rest

Superset #3
Lateral Raises 15-20 x 2 sets
no rest
Upright Rows 15-20 x 2 sets
1 minute

TUESDAY - Hamstrings/Calves/Lower Abs

Superset #1
Lying Leg Curls 10 reps x 10 sets
no rest
Lying Leg Raises 10 reps x 10 sets
1 minute rest

Dumbell Lunges 15-20 reps x 2 sets, 1 min rests
Standing Calf Raises 15-20 x 8 sets, 30 sec. rests

THURSDAY - Biceps/Triceps/Delts

Superset #1
Incline Dumbell Curls 8 reps x 8 sets, no rest
Lying Triceps Extensions 8 reps x 8 sets, 1 min. rest
Dumbell Shoulder Press 8 reps x 8 sets, 1 min. rest

Superset #2
Neutral Grip Chin-ups 15-20 reps x 2 sets, no rest
Close Grip Bench Press 15-20 reps x 2 sets, 1 min. rest
Bent-over Lateral Raises 15-20 reps x 2 sets, no rest

FRIDAY - Quadriceps/Calves/Upper Abs

Superset #1
Squats (medium stance) 10 reps x 10 sets, no rest
Crunches 10 reps x 10 sets, 1 min. rest

Squats (wide stance) 15-20 reps x 2 sets, 1 min. rest
Calf Press 8 reps x 8 sets, 30 sec. rest

Hugo says this type of workout produces muscle hypertrophy due to:
Increased growth hormone output due to decreased rest intervals and higher volume.
An increase in creatine phosphate levels, water and carbohydrates inside muscle cells.

Darkhorse · #14 12-06-2005, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Wide Grip Chins 10 reps x 10 sets
1 minute rest

Superset #2
Chest Dips 15-20 reps x 2 sets
no rest
Close Grip Chins 15-20 reps x 2 sets
1 minute rest

BTW, obviously for shit like this it's almost impossible. So I'd recommend doing rack pullups or rack chins. I think it's better doing rack pullups in the smythe, then underhand pulldowns for this....Not saying I'd do something as crazy as this.

Dr X · #15 12-17-2005, 05:50 PM

Well I just completed 3 weeks of GVT.
First week I was so sore. Second week the soreness was almost completly gone and although I increased weight on all my lifts I felt a little weak. But the third week I was strong as hell again with increased weight again on all my lifts. I was also sore as hell again. I will do it again next week and then reevaluate at that time. the thing is my strength is going up so this has to be a good thing. A little boring tho.

Darkhorse · #16 12-18-2005, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr X

Well I just completed 3 weeks of GVT.
First week I was so sore. Second week the soreness was almost completly gone and although I increased weight on all my lifts I felt a little weak. But the third week I was strong as hell again with increased weight again on all my lifts. I was also sore as hell again. I will do it again next week and then reevaluate at that time. the thing is my strength is going up so this has to be a good thing. A little boring tho.

That's good to hear. I'm sure the 10 x 6 will be a lot more funner since you'll use heavier weight.

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