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Bone Head mistake (+ update)



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  #11  
Old 02-23-2007, 11:43 AM
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hrdgain81 hrdgain81 is offline
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^^ hahaha thats great, just like the mac comercial

"windows vista, you are coming to a sad realization, accept, or decline" hhahah
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  #12  
Old 02-23-2007, 11:59 AM
EricT EricT is offline
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Haha, that's awesome. You can just say that to people when they stare .
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  #13  
Old 02-28-2007, 08:07 AM
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Ok so I'm in my 6th week of this program, and I'm feeling really good about it. I havent hit a wall yet, and the wieghts are moving easily. My overall goals right now are to have all of my big three numbers up to atleast 315. here is how I see it:

Squat is going to be tough, I dont think i've ever fee squated over 265 before, I've always been week in this movement, but my form is coming along, and I am feeling more confident with it.

Bench shouldnt be too much of a struggle, It wont be a picknick, but I've pushed 305 for 8 in the past, so I can forsee me getting there eventually.

DeadLift I'm almost there as it is, tonight I'll be doing 295x5 for my last set, and last weeks 290 went up very easily. I dont expect any problems here.

Now here is were I need some help fellas. I know after another couple of weeks the strain of moving up wieghts will be a little much, and I may have to cut back some to let the cns rest up a bit. What do you guys suggest?

I could cut my wieghts back and start back again at week 4 or 5, and basicly repeat weeks till I'm at my goal. Or i could just take a week or two and push lighter wieghts, then pick back up were I left off. I'm still about 3 weeks or more away from this, but I want to be ready in advance. Any suggestions would be very much apreciated.
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  #14  
Old 02-28-2007, 09:26 AM
EricT EricT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrdgain
I could cut my wieghts back and start back again at week 4 or 5, and basicly repeat weeks till I'm at my goal. Or i could just take a week or two and push lighter wieghts, then pick back up were I left off. I'm still about 3 weeks or more away from this, but I want to be ready in advance. Any suggestions would be very much apreciated.
I think your second guessing a lot of things prematurely. This is not a criticism of you, bro, just an observation: you tend to get hung up on physiological details. So here your worried about you CNS. Don't be.

The workload does start to build up on this particular program but you may be overestimating what constitutes a "rest" and some extra recovery. One thing I will say for sure is don't back off unless you hit a plateau and/or miss reps on one (or more) exercises for a couple weeks.

There are SO many things you can do to make the workload more managable if you feel recovery is not up to par and what have you. One obvious thing is to increase the increments between the ramp up sets on Monday. This will make a huge difference. And if you look at the numbers you will realize that you are not reducing the workload by some drastic amount you are just "resetting" it. The average intensity will drop off some and that will constitute a little "rest".

You can always change the loading increments on any exercise it you feel you can't keep loading a certain amount.

You can adjust another day to allow for more recovery. I.E. you can cut down the squats on wednesday. Or drop a set on MP's if you are doing those (you should be).

There are lots of adjustments you can make at this stage and later down the road. Little things can make a big difference. This is why I warned about following the 'cookie cutter' version. It is much better to be flexible and to realize that you do not always
have to take drastic steps to continue progression.

One other thing I would mention is that this is really about training individual movement which you know but you really need to let each exercise have it's own flow. You don't want to go changing things simply to reach a specific goal on everything. Wherever you get for each movement is good and you can treat each movement individually. If you're having trouble with bench just adjust bench and keep everything that you are not having trouble with the same.

As far as lifting lighter weights for a while you don't ever want intensity to drop off very much or you'll be in trouble. You're worrying about cns fatigue but if you drop off too much what you get is cns detraining cuz that is the FIRST to go. So basically you'll find yourself making up ground rather than picking up where you left off. This kind of thing is the very reason to use this kind of weekly periodization rather than some western linear method.

Hope this helps...
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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.

Last edited by EricT; 02-28-2007 at 10:03 AM.
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  #15  
Old 02-28-2007, 10:24 AM
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It does eric, and trust me if I can just keep going, and my strength keeps climbing I see no reason to stop, or slow down. What I was referring to was what I should do in case I hit a plateau, or I wake up after squating unable to walk the next day.

I know that some programs outline a deloading phase, I wanted to see if something similar would be applicable. I think when as I start to get closer to those goals periodization may become important.

thanks for the advice bro, it was definately helpful. And for the record what do you mean by this?

Quote:
You can always change the loading increments on any exercise it you feel you can't keep loading a certain amount.
do you mean drop my increments from 5lbs a week, down to say 2.5lbs or something like that?

Also, I wanted to mention I've been throwing in wieght acclimation sets recently. For instance, monday had me jumping from 235 straight to 270. I felt that, mentally it was too much of a jump, so I threw in a set of 255x1 just to acclimate, and it made 270x5 so much easier ... I will prob do this from now on.

oh and ...

Quote:
You can adjust another day to allow for more recovery. I.E. you can cut down the squats on wednesday. Or drop a set on MP's if you are doing those (you should be).
MP's?
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  #16  
Old 02-28-2007, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrdgain
What I was referring to was what I should do in case I hit a plateau, or I wake up after squating unable to walk the next day.
Gotcha. It sounded like you were wanting to plan changes in anticipation of a plateau. As far as not being able to walk the only way that would happen is if you suddenly upped the worklaod drastically. So if you have that bad a recovery without and drastic changes it would probably have to do with factors other than training.

Quote:
I know that some programs outline a deloading phase, I wanted to see if something similar would be applicable. I think when as I start to get closer to those goals periodization may become important.
There is absolutely no deloading phase 'within' the program. At least not in the way you are thinking. The way it should be thought of is that each week is "loading" and "deloading" in one. At least that is the way it is supposed to work. One week represents a loading period AND recovery from that. But while this is a good program whether full recovery is possible depends on the individual. Friday is too close to Monday when it comes down to it for everyone to be able to run it for very long. Which is why I advocate flexibility if you want to get the most out of it.

But it is periodized and if you wanted to re-periodize so to speak you should do that with the same weekly basis in mind.

On dropping the loading increments I mean exactly what you said. Microloading, when it comes to these types of programs is really something I feel everyone should embrace. So when it is getting really hard and you feel you won't be able to add 5 pounds to the bench, for instance, without plateauing very soon, you could go to 2.5 and keep loading.

By MP's I mean military press.
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  #17  
Old 02-28-2007, 11:54 AM
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This is really new territory for me eric, so I'm glad your here to shed some light on this stuff. I'm not doing military presses, or any real direct shoulder work.

Its odd though, my bench has never felt stronger, I think I tend to overtrain shoulders when the routine includes both MP's, and chest work. and then both movements suffer.

Everything you said makes a lot of sense, and there is no reason upping my squat by 5lbs would make much that much more sore the next week, unless my form or something else was off.

How do you feel about taking friday off from time to time, or dropping the wieghts down for that perticular day ... as a deload of sorts. I think that would give me optimum time to heal, and not hinder my numbers come the next monday. just a thought.

thanks again eric.
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  #18  
Old 02-28-2007, 01:50 PM
EricT EricT is offline
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If you're not doing overhead pressing on Wednesday then I assume you are doing incline benching? If that is so then trust me that's a whole lot worse for your shoulders. The pressing work on Wednesday doesn't have to be very much...you can do as little as 2 sets of 5. OR you could also do higher reps at a weight that doesn't necessarily represent a maximal effort but balancing out the front pressing with overhead pressing is really beneficial to the health of your shoulders and quite frankly I count overhead pressing as very important.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrdgain
How do you feel about taking friday off from time to time, or dropping the wieghts down for that perticular day ... as a deload of sorts. I think that would give me optimum time to heal, and not hinder my numbers come the next monday. just a thought.
Well I think that's an excellent idea but not as a piecemeal bandaid. When it comes down to it either you are continuing to progress or you are not. Theoretically if you are progressing then enough recovery is taking place and fatigue is backing off enough to see that progression. You may have bad days and good days within that because you may be able to run the program very well but hardly anyone can perfect all the behavoiral factors at all times. That's one reason it is important when you miss a rep or something that you give it a few tries before you assume you've hit an unsurmountable wall.

With that in mind, imo, the best way to run it is to keep the basic progression the same while keeping in mind some of those things I mentioned in the above posts. And when you can progress by no other means you back off the intensity a few weeks to allow for extra recovery and you get it moving again.

If you wanted to back off on Friday once and a while it wouldn't take anything very drastic. You could simply drop a set and not load the bar then hold over your weights from that Monday to the next. Sure, that would give you extra recovery. But you interupt the progression. If you decided to back off on Friday like I described and then loaded the bar on Monday that would probably work but the next Friday you could find yourself not quite able to load again.

That is the basic problem on this routine with it's double progression. Monday is tied to Friday. Another point while I'm on the subject is all of these things I am talking about are designed to continue progression for another 2 or 3 weeks at most.

Better to adjust Monday (or Wednesday). I mentioned widening the increments. That may not appeal to everyone. Another thing you can do is drop the third and fourth set down to 2 or 3 reps. That would allow a few more PRs. These are subtle changes that make a big difference.

After it becomes apparent that you have plateaued then a backoff will work (but not such a huge one like 25%) to get it going again but it is doubtful you will be able to use the same little adjustments after that to move forward very much so it is at that point that adjustments in Monday AND Friday could allow you to reap some further benefits.

Best thing to do (what I have done also) is to change Monday to 5 sets across. This would be with the weight sets back to some weight less than whatever you top set of 5 stalled at. You have to use your judgement but you want to build up a little so you start conservative. Then Friday would be ramping up to the top set of 5. Wednesday would be lighter squats, front squats, or whatever and one set of deads. Pretty much the same. But progression would be Monday to Monday and Friday to Friday. Separate. Friday would not govern what you do on Monday.

That should work for a while longer. And you'd be amazed at how long you can keep this shit up! But by the time you get that far you'll probably be burnt on it and want to switch it up for a little while.
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  #19  
Old 03-15-2007, 06:14 AM
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All good stuff eric, thanks.

Its that time now, I have been on this program for 8.5 weeks, and its gone very well. here are the final numbers for the big lifts this week.

squat: 255x5 (disapointing, but my progress is not slowing, this should get a lot better in the coming months)

dead lift: 325x4 (I f'd up on the last pull, my form was off or I would have had it, I was less then happy last night)

flat bench: 285x4 (again a little disapointed that i missed the last rep, but shit, its a lot better then were I started)

Incline bench: 255x5 (this felt very lite, I am fairly happy with that right now)


The plan now is to take off this friday and all of next week. I have friends staying with me from out of town so it works out well this way. After that I will drop each big lift by 10 - 15lbs, and restart this same program. I have recomped my strength fairly easily with this, so I am gonna keep going. I will also start adding in some cardio on my off days after the break.
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  #20  
Old 03-22-2007, 05:01 AM
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Keep up the good work and you will continue to progress. Let us know how things are going.
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