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Sets x reps x exercises per muscle x one day

Yup, intensity is % of 1 RM. Example: Flat bench (1x5) is a higher intensity than doing (1x12)

More like how often you're working your muscles. Example: Doing 2 upper, 2 lower workouts per week means hitting muscles twice in a given week.

If you're referring to my loading/deloading example, what's not to get? For the deload week, you're keeping the intensity and frequency the SAME, but slashing almost all the volume. If you compare the two:

It's a absolute VACATION doing the deload workout when you've been doing the high volume loading workout for 3-5 weeks.

There's plenty of other ways of doing it [deloading] also. You could do a lot of things:

-> Cut the frequency, volume, or BOTH. This means doing ONE upper body workout (Monday) with or without the volume, and ONE lower body workout (Thursday). That's if you have subpar recovery. This is another idea of a deload week.

There are so many individualized options, it's rediculous. Just picture a deload week as a week that'll MAINTAIN your strength (keeping intensity high) while allowing your body to recover throughout the week (slashing volume, frequency, or both). There's many programs that want you to take a full week OFF completely from the gym. This type of training can keep you in the gym indefinately, without even needing a week completely away from the gym.

You have to read Kelley Baggett's article I posted on one of the previous pages or else you'll be lost in the sauce pertaining to the concepts of dual factor theory.

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yeah i see the difference now, makes a lot more sence.
Thx

Medium, please, please don't take any offence to this question. It's meant to help. What is you training experience? What have you done? If your are still struggling with these basic defintions than perhaps a DFT, which is basically a form of ADVANCED periodization, is neither necessary or appropriate. You don't have to post here. You could make a thread.

I know that some people believe that it's either supercompensation or two factor and that the latter is "superior", but that is not really how it works. What is superior is what allows you the quickest progression (for the longest period of time hopefully) for the level of training you're at. They are not really mutually exclusive it is only that we are more conciously manipulating them on a broader time scale for the "DFT" programs.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.

i don't have much experience, to tell you the truth i'm a beginner, i'm trying to make sense of these programs and definitions included, i totally understand where your coming from and will start my own thread lol
thx

Good. These adaptations theories are still being fleshed out but some of the explanations I think lead beginners or others to think that they need to go right to loading on a 4 week or 6 week basis in this will result in greater "fitness". So it's either your using 'single factor' and 'riding the supercompensation wave' and that's inferior or your using 'dual factor' and loading for weeks and that's superior. Nobody comes out and says that, it's just the implied message.

If your at HIT fellow. Then your riding that wave. If you'e not waiting around for so called full recovery to take place but you're stucturing you program in a way to manage fatigue, guess what, you're using two factor theory. What changes is the time frame.

You can't say two different adaptaion models or both correct in every way. Either dual factor is the way it works or General Adaptation or Supercompensation is the way. Their may be aspects of any theory that are correct and a later theory may expand on those things. But what it really comes down to is this...if your are "timing" your workouts to adhere to the supercompensation wave, your programming sucks.

A period of fatigue may be a couple of days. It may be a week. Or it may be a peoriod of several weeks. But it's all the same. What people have gotten mixed up is this confusing what is basically a way of periodizing for advanced lifters and saying that represents the application of a theory where other programs for less advanced lifters do not.

I am NOT saying I understand all this. I don't even know that I need to. There have been some good explanations in terms of the theory and it's application to advanced programming, but it still hasn't been fully "explained" in all it's implications to my satisfaction. I like Kelly Baggets simple explanation the best but even then what he is really explaining is long periods of fatigueing, overloading, or overreaching (whatever you want to call it) and then recovery and and peaking. That is a manisfestation of the theory but not the theory itself.

In any case, Medium, you need to look for a beginner's program.

You don't need to worry about whether it's single factor or dual factor at this point. There are programs all laid out for various stages of training. But basically if you can hit PR's for long periods of time on a shorter 'cycle' then I say do that.

My friend, 0311, once referred to 'single factor' as "perpetual 5x5 loading". For me doing various permutations of intermediate (so-called single factor) 5x5's there were times when I was basically building up for three weeks and then progressing forward for up to 7 weeks, hitting new weekly PR's for a substantial percentage of that time!....no perpetual loading in that at all. Basically I was "loading" for a week and displaying those fitness gains every week rather than every month. I had no need to load for a longer period of time.

0311 posted this before but I don't think many people are actually reading through it: Madcow's Writeups

Everybody REALLY REALLY needs to read though this to get a general overview of all this. Not just the programs. ALL of it.

I can't edit my post anymore but...

I wasn't trying to say that two-factor or fitness-fatigue isn't at work in HIT. Of course it is.

Good.


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I've been reading the Bill Starr DF 5x5 training programs and Mark Rippetoe's programs about Olympic lifts.

I've been thinking, and I would like to ramp up my clean power so I can clean 225 for 5x5. Then take that and try and build more endurance on top of it, but that's another story.

My question is for the Bill Starr DF 5x5 program he states,..
Does this mean if I'm going to incorporate Power cleans I have to also incorporate High Pulls or can I have Deads and Cleans? I don't mind doing High Pulls because it does help with Cleans I just don't want my Deads to go down in weight.
OR
Should I use a different workout that would incorporate OL better? I havent' got a chance to read on Glenn Pendlay's routines so I don't know if his would be better or Bill's.

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Good question. Personally, if I don't work my deadlifts for a month, they really never decrease very drastically, especially if you're doing powercleans and squats in your routine. Matter of fact, it's a very good idea to drop them for a mesocycle if you've been doing them for so long without a break.

You're correct about high pulls being incorperated to increase your powercleans. That's why they're there. High pulls will work the beginning of your clean before the catch. If you're already strong with it, then it's up to you. IMO, if you've been deadlifting a lot lately, it may be a good switch that'll really bring up your clean.

You can certainly take what both are saying and make something that won't get in the way of your BJJ training. Oftentimes, three full body's are super tough with that layout. There's no way I could do that anymore with the weight I'm moving!

Nothing wrong with making the routine into an four day with lower volume per day. That's what I'm basically doing and it's far and away MUCH better for me. For example, instead of doing Day 2's workout [front squats, ohp's, pullups, and deadlifts], you can cut that down to pullups, curls, and deadlifts.. And those deadlifting numbers will skyrocket as you're not wearing yourself out with all the other exercises... Especially cutting down the mental strain of fitting everything in.

Something along these lines Dave:

Monday: Pullups; Curls; Powercleans

Wednesday: Bench (1x5 Pyramid); Shoulder Iso; Triceps press or Extensions

Friday: High Pulls; Squats

Sunday: Bench (5x5 static); OHP's; ect

Everything still remains 5x5 except for possibly the powercleans (3-5 x 3) as well as the biceps and triceps (which should be repetition).

Thanks 0311. I'm coming up on my "off season", so to speak, so I want to build up on strength and some size before I have to do more endurance work. I might run a regular DF 5x5 with Deads and then run it again with the Cleans and High pulls, see how my body handles the substitution, and then try out the 4 day split. But I haven't made my mind up yet. The 4 day split is very appealing.