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When most people start working out, they don't really know what exatly they are doing. Are they doing Strength Training or Bodybuilding?

I have come to understand that both these methods differ from each other in many ways.

Most ppl make the mistake of thinking that doing 2 reps with heavy weights for flyes or curling 300lbs is called "Strength Training". Well, they're horribly wrong.

Strength Training revolves around the following exercises:

Chest
Incline / Flat / Decline Barbell / Dumbbell Bench Press
Parallel Bar Dips

Shoulders
Military Press
Clean and Press
Upright Rows

Back
Hyperextensions
Good Mornings
Barbell / Dumbbell Rows
Lat Pull Down
Chin-Ups

Legs
Squats
Deadlifts
Stiff Leg Deadlifts
Lying Leg Curls
Hack Squats

Now, if one tries to lift heavy weights for any of the following exercises, yes: one is Strength Training.

But, lets say you start doing flyes, leg extensions, barbell curls, triceps pressdowns, etc... you are bodybuilding. now, i know i have not included any directarm work in the above exercise selection. thats because most of the above exercises are compound movements. Like Chad Waterbury, I too have come to believe that there is no need to do any direct arm work in any program... doing more compound movements increases arm size automatically.

i am not saying you can't do a mixture of the two... In fact - it does exist: its called "Power Building". Here is a useful link:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/bbin...=PowerBuilding

I have developed some great training routines for stength. Unfortunately, i do not have time to post them here, but, i will do so soon. till then: chao

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At 16, huh?! Are you sure it's not another Chad Waterbury routine cut and paste?

That sentence should read, "Like every other giant in the gym, I too jump on the bandwagon that you don't need direct arm work."

What is with you and Chad?!

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No direct arm work would be acceptable for a cycle where you want to maintain your existing muscle. Despite what anyone says, I don't see how its possible to get massive arms without direct arm work.

During my first run through with Bill Starr's 5x5 I had 18 1/4 roughly. During the training cycle, I did 2 sets of barbell curls a week. My indirect arm work consisted of JS Rows twice a week (5x5) and weighted pullups (5x5). Those heavy pulling exercises combined with all the compound pressing I was doing jammed my biceps up to 19's. After every workout, my arms were toast.

Bingo! While I do some direct arm work (currently doing Lyle McDonald's generic bulking routine) near the end of my upper body workouts, I believe that heavy pulling exercises work well enough for bi's, while heavy pressing works well for tri's. I've never seen anybody who can row, do pull-ups, bench, etc. (throw in any multitude of compound/multi-joint exercises) with loads of weight and still have small arms. Lyle even notes that he threw in a couple of arm exercises in the routine for the "OCD bodybuilder" who HAS to do some arm work. Like I said, being somewhat OCD I do in fact throw in one exercise for bi's, one for tri's at the end of my upper body workouts.

I've gotten the greatest hypertrophy gains while focusing on the big, multi-joint, compound movements (and at the dinner table of course). Strength goes up as well but make no mistake, I am more focused on the esthetic aspect of gaining muscle and size for the look.

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are you not agreeing with me then...?

hmmm..........? looks like someone's confused ;)

Why the hostility?? I was simply agreeing with the statement that I quoted and in no way did I assert that I was disagreeing with you...

Just remember to keep an open mind about things regarding training, dieting, etc. There appears to be a lot of knowledgeable people around here so just be open to suggestions. Glad to see that you've been doing some reading. I've been doing this for 10+years and always learning more.

oh, then welcome to the forum sir...

In any program?

Direct arm work in "Waterbury Method" article:
Skull Crushers
Triceps Pressdown
Standing Barbell Curls
Standing Hammer Curls

"Hybrid Hypertrophy": Triceps work

"Art of Waterbury":
Triceps Pressdowns or French Presses
Standing Hammer Curls
Skull Crushers or Lying DB Triceps Extensions

"Total Body Training": Allows 2 sets of "assistance exercises"

This per the schedules as Waterbury designed them. Obviously you could study the parameters and take these out, but there seems usually to be a "method" to his madness so it is probably better to do the programs as he outlines.

This is the danger of taking comments out of context. Waterbury said that everyone knows who has been around the gym for a while that the best arm growth is achieved though heavy compound pulling and pushing exercises (paraphrase).

He didn't include any direct arm work in "Anti Bodybuilding" for instance. The program was designed without it. And yet not all his programs are without direct arm work. Seems it depends on other variables.

You'd have to ask him why this is. I didn't read all of his articles. I'm sure he includes triceps work to increase strength on pressing. Perhaps he likes biceps work sometimes to increase strength on pulling.

Whether he includes them or not seems to be dependant on the specific program.

I agree that direct arm work leads to bigger arms in a properly designed program of heavy pressing and pulling.

But, and this is just an example, biceps strength is a LIMITING factor in pulling exercises. No matter what you do you can't do a pull-up or a pull-down without bending your arms. If you're like me, you can't bend your arms without your biceps. Period. Any trick in the book is not gonna eliminate the fact that getting a full contraction in the lats during pulling is dependant on the strength of the relatively smaller and weaker biceps.

This just may be why Waterbury sometimes includes direct arm work depending on how advanced the routine is.

It is possible for some that while their arms are getting bigger doing heavy pushing and pulling their chest and back, for example, are suffering.

I do agree, however, with the general statement about arm growth being made here. I just believe there is a time and a place for everything which depends of the individual and the program itself.