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Finished DFT 5x5 Now What??



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  #41  
Old 05-26-2008, 10:24 AM
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Also on a side note: Is it unusual that the bench is still a sticky situation as far as my shoulder injury is concerned....but overhead shoulder press does not bother it one bit....

Going to get an MRI on that for sure when i get back to the states....
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  #42  
Old 05-26-2008, 12:04 PM
EricT EricT is offline
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Bench with a straight bar can be hell on the shoulders. It's not an unusual situation in the least bit. Shoulder problems and bench pressing can go hand in hand. Also, the overhead pressing probably plays a part in it as far as just overtraining the straight bar pressing.

Since you hurt it on bench why should it be surprising that bench still hurts? But I think the reason is you are laboring under a false assumption. I know you said "something happend" on bench one day and you hurt your shoulder. Well, something didn't just happen...it had been happening but you had compensated. That day was just the straw that broke the camels back. I guarantee it wasn't just "some thing that happend".

5x5 flat benching, was the bane of my bench pressing ability. Thoughout the time I was doing 5x5 training it was always one step forward two steps back. I would get this great new pr for a 5 rep max then turn around a drop 30 pounds and barely be able to get that up for one rep..with bad form. My shoulders kept going south. High volume benching in general is not very productive for me but I simply never use that much volume with a straight bar that heavy anymore.

You are going to have to figure out where the imbalance is and fix it. And you are going to have to modify or eliminate benching if need be. In general though you really should never spend so much time doing so much straight bar benching. You should have periods of bumbell benching if need be..or vary the bench press with different angles, etc and keep the volume down. IME, with an existing shoulder problem, varying the angle doesn't help that much. Changing the range of motion helps a lot more. Board presses are very valuable for this reason...and obviously for the primary reason to use board presses. Floor presses I find to be murder on the shoulders, however for some reason.

I've got enough shoulder stuff posted on this board, together with tests, etc..that most, with due diligence should be able to improve their shoulder situation.

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As far as the program thing, i understand i was not educated enough to start a program, and thats why i picked the DFT 5x5 because it was very cut and dry....pick a weight you can complete 5 sets of 5 with...easy stuff (like i said earlier i didn't really have anyone to ask advice from personally)
Like I said, it wasn't really aimed at you. Obviously you were pretty successful with it. But that doesn't mean you needed to come out with a shoulder problem for that success. Short term gain...long term loss.

But the program, from a beginner standpoint, is not that straght forward. Like just about everyone who is doing this, I'm not sure you understand the point of how it all works and the supposed reasons for doing it. If people don't understand why they are doing what they are doing...they are bound to screw it up or simply be driving a nail with a sledgehammer which is what I think happened.

Straightforward is simply taking a movement and progressing on it from workout to workout or week to week by increasing the resistance, or the reps, or the sets, or some combination of those as long as you can. That's as straightforward as it gets.

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Until then i had spent over a year "over training" on the one body part per day scandal, if you will. I had realized my errors though, and that was why i picked DFT 5x5, i felt i needed a "program", and as i stated it was so cut and dry.
Very ironic. You thought you were "overtraining" with one bodypart a day so to compensate you did a program that was "planned overreaching". The idea being to approach at least the beginning of overtraining.

I notice a lot of people see bodypart splits and say "you're overtraining" as if the two are synonomous. You may have been overusing certain joints and it was probably very inefficient but I doubt you were in an overtrained state just by virtue of donig a bodypart split. And going to a fullbody isn't a guarantee of not overtraining even if it's not planned overreaching. Most of the time when people say overtraining they are really talking about "overreaching" which is just a shortlived, beginning version of over-training meaning it's more easily reversible.

I'm not sure what plan you are talking about doing....
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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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  #43  
Old 05-26-2008, 01:30 PM
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I was over training, for sure, just pounding away at every muscle group for exp: chest day, flat bench, incline, decline, db press, db flys, and machine flys....for four sets----i spent loads of time on bi's and tri's, just thought more work equaled more gain....but besides that...

---I'll prob stick w/ the 5x5 schedule as far as what lifts to do and when (of course minus bench, sub it w/ something on the machines, or light DB) but only I'll do them at the highest "intensity" possible, while maintaining my best form, in a 6-10 rep range, in sets of 3.

basically thats my plan, im just trying to get bigger and stronger.
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  #44  
Old 05-26-2008, 02:55 PM
EricT EricT is offline
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Somebody stop me next time....we are back to lower intensity. If you want to exept another definition of intensity other than what I've outlined say so sooner before I waste so much time. I don't get paid for this.

Hopefully someone benefited in some way from this.

Anyway dumbells will be a good idea. Machines will not.

What this comes down to is everyone wants to be handed a template and nobody wants to understand anything. But sense people don't even understand the templates they do half the time it's a no-win situation.
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  #45  
Old 05-26-2008, 03:01 PM
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I would have if I had known. Sucks, doesn't it?
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  #46  
Old 05-26-2008, 03:03 PM
EricT EricT is offline
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I'm not getting any younger Maybe someone PM'd him.

At least this time read over the entire DFT program and do it right. If you're going to hurt yourself you may as well do it the right way. There is no point in doing DFT for whatever it was you said...

I'll keep saying this one thing though over and over: No matter how good your intention are you can't do a program like DFT while "maintaining your best form". Quantiy and quality tend to be mutually exclusive. If you are carrying fatigue from one workout to the other than don't tell me you're going to do your best work, lol. If you are NOT carrying fatigue then you don't even understand the point of it and you don't need long loading blocks in the first place. Why is this so damn hard for people to understand? There is nothing magical about all that volume to build strength when you don't need it.

Last edited by EricT; 05-26-2008 at 03:53 PM.
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  #47  
Old 05-27-2008, 08:48 AM
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OK well, I'm sorry. If your pissed i understand, I'm a slow learner. I'm trying my best....I guess I'll never figure it out, i was just trying to do what you said, I'm not going back to DFT but i just want to continue doing Deads Squats and Shoulder Press, they are important to me. No one PM'd me. This just seems very confusing to me, and i get lost in the vast amount of information. I am really trying to say what you take to heart.

You said intensity dealt w/ a 1RM, so to keep intensity high i would stay close to that. Now as far as volume, how do i decrease that if I'm lifting w/ a high intensity....lower my reps...i don't know, I'm not trying to waste your time, and I'm sorry if you feel that way.

I take this serious, I'm not looking to get hurt, or waste my time. I really just want to do everything right, and safely. I'm not keeping the 5x5 just the basics, squatting, deads, and shoulder press. Maybe i explained my self wrong, and again I'm sorry.

I'm not just another guy on this forum looking for a quick fix, if you look I've been a member for prob over a year w/ only 50 post or so, because I've been READING, READING, and READING....the info just tends to overwhelm me.

If your frustrated imagine how i feel. I'm am trying my HARDEST to make sense of everything and figure out what i need to be doing and seem to be getting nowhere, thats frustrating, at least you know where your at, and what you're doing. I'm stuck, and just trying to get unstuck. On top of that I'm injured, I did not want that. I would not have taken that risk if I believed that I did 'not' know what I was doing, but I thought I did. Honestly I think what happened was not being naive...I believe that the bar went to far down towards my chin in the lowered position. It was my second set, after a week off, so it was light compared to what I had been doing. (Do you think everyone in here does every single rep, of every workout, exactly to perfect form. Never one slip, one "oh shit" that wasn't to good. We all make mistakes.)

--You may feel you are trying to help me, and that I am blowing you off, and not taking what you say to heart, but I am. I wouldn't waste someones time, and generosity like that intentionally.
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  #48  
Old 05-27-2008, 09:49 AM
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Altus, No one here wishes anything but the best for you but after dealing with many people sometimes nerves get a little frazzled.

Yes, intensity deals with the 1RM max and to increase your intensity your volume (number of reps/sets) decreases. Keep the basics (heavy compound movments), train with intensity (around 90% of your 1RM and low reps), eat properly and you will do fine.

Glad to hear you are reading and improving your knowledge base as it will serve you very well. Train hard, train smart and you will grow.

Good luck on meeting your goals.
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  #49  
Old 05-27-2008, 11:33 AM
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Thanks, that sounds perfect Widdoes. Maybe it was all just too much for me to take in, that sounds just right though, I'll work on it that way (no specific "program" just the basics!) and report back to let you all know how i progress.....

--and again thanks Eric for all your help!!!
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  #50  
Old 05-27-2008, 11:34 AM
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No problem. Good luck.
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