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Holy wowzas 0311 thinks the same thing as I do. World is over. Sorry people

Mark, you must have the idea that I will run and hide as soon as 0311 enters the picture

Too bad there are other people with their own experience to draw from and their own opinions .

I still disagree. First of all the idea that you would overtrain I agree is riduculous. But I don't know what boot camp has to do with what Kurt is doing OR what overtraining has to do with it. Were you guys running a 5x5? Overtraining happens over a long period of time. 0311 knows that overreaching happens over a short period.

How many times do I have to point out that this is single factor, linear progression, plain old supercompensation? It ain't about building up fatigue and pullups are not like doing some dumbell laterals. For a whole lot of people lactic acid would hardly enter the picture. There are people here who can only do one.

This shit is about progression over time. Kurt has goals to meet in terms of lifts and this is, at it's heart, a strength routine. As far as bodybuilder mentality, doing pullups in this IS bodybuilder mentality. Saying that all the pullups in the world won't matter is like saying having a sprint in the middle of the workout won't matter. Of COURSE it will.

Huh? Although bodybuilder's do talk about overtraining needlessly it is, from what I've seen, the bbr's mentality to look at EACH and EVERY workout as the whole point of the thing. The more is always better mentality. It is the bodybuilder's mentality to worry about his lats and so "add" to an established program to bring them up.

But the whole point of THIS thing is progression over a long string of workouts. How many actual bodybuilders think that way? Very few. Hell progression has largely went out the window and it's more about "variety". The guy who can run this for maybe eight weeks is going to have better success than the one who fucks with it and runs it for six. It is endlessly entertaining to me how we say "don't fuck with the program" but then constantly come up with exceptions based on meaningless criteria. We are suffering from information overload. Time for elimination. Don't fuck with it means don't fuck with it. Take out all the stuff that applies to different situations or different people and think about what you want to get out of the program. Set a goal and eliminate anything that doesn't pertain to reaching that goal.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.

[QUOTE] Every bodybuilder seems to have Attention Deficit Disorder and an overwhelming desire to customize everything. [QUOTE] Bill Star's 5x5...LOL

lol, if he's talking about bodyweight pullups, there's nothing wrong with doing them a few days a week on top of the power routine. He's been doing this routine for months now, and it's lower eschelon volume with all the pyramided sets. The question becomes, why would you bother??

I agree that noone should fuck with a set program hands down. I guess it all depends on what he is referring to for pullups. Even when I was weight training in the military (way back in the day), we still had P.T. in the morning which included a 3 K run (usually) and tons of pullups both before and after. My buddies and I still went to the gym in the p.m. and busted out some killer workouts. Never overtrained. Or what about brick layers curling bricks all day, then going to the gym at night doing an arms workout? Or OLY trainees working out the same exercises up to 14 times a week? Just throwing out examples..It could be 18 times, could be 12 times.

So in my experience, shit, even right NOW with what I'm currently doing with my modified westside split, I can go outside three days a week and do a few sets of pullups and not think twice about it. Weighted is another story.

Nowadays, you look on other forums discussing 5 day splits and see how they demonize anything more than ONCE A WEEK! I'm sure everyone sees that. Now THAT is what I'm referring to. But, like I said, if he pays attention to the signs of when he starts to overreach, then by all means, dump the pullups.

I also agree with this! 100% accurate.

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Oh shit, I thought we were!

Just so everybody knows what 5x5 I am doing exactly I'll post my workout so you guys can understand a little bit more of where I am coming from ok. So here it is.

Mon:Squat
Bench
Powercleans-not JS rows

Wed:Squat
Incline or Millitary
Deadlift

Fri:Squat
Bench
Powerclean


Sorry for not providing all this info from the get go, it didn't even cross my mind that I am doing the 5x5 with powercleans instead of JS rows

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385X1 Deadlift
275X1 A2G
215X1 Bench
177X1 Cleans

5'9" @ approx. 172lbs

Goal...Routine of lifting Consistently...185-190+lbs lean

The best way to stay on your feet...
...is to fall on your knees



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Good one! Add pullups, and some abdominals while you're at it.

LOL, I knew what you were doing. That's why I said substitute the rows if you were concerned about your lats.

Eric, I didn't expect you to run from anything. I just think it's odd that someone agrees with what I said. Therfore the world is over. The End.

alrighty well thanks everyone for your input, i am going to add pullups to mon and fri. i think im going to start a journal to keep everyone updated and to track my progress.