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Well those are some good points. I think the reason your body sends out the failure signal is because if you dropped the weight you're probably going to fall over backwards since you're still trying to extend your legs/back. If suddenly that weight is gone you're going to move pretty damn fast. lol

IronWorker

Great discussion! AC makes some good points about grip strength.

In the strongman community we all realize how important grip strength is. It is virtually the starting point of all events. Even now, when we train some high school football players, and even a semi-pro 400lb lineman, we still focus heavily on getting their grip strength up. In most athletics, grip strength is a BIG plus. As grip strength begins to feed into full body strength (in deadlifts, rows, cleans, etc...) then you begin to understand how grip strength can hold you back when you thought it was "sufficient."

This is absolutely true. I've actually never heard another person really hit on this. As a matter of fact shoulder health can be tied into grip strength and vice versa. This is sort of connected to the the idea of the grip failing and the body dong a bail. Say you are doing something with deadlifts (say romanians) where your grip endurance gives out and the grip fails. The first response to this shutdown effect can be the shoulder complex relaxing. The traps relaxing, etc. Then you end up with a strain or something else. So it ties into health as well as absolute ability and even ligher weights.

If your gip fails with a very heavy weight you may simply bail or fail. But in other situations where the grip strength quality doesn't meet your needs and you are in a state of fatigue you can actually hurt yourself not because your grip starts to let go but because you are willing you hands to hold on while your body sends a different signal (don't know if that will make perfect sense to anyone).

I certainly agree with the idea that grip strength qualities across the board can be valuable even to a person who is just looking to hold onto a deadlift, your training has to meet your goals. And not all grip qualities are going to need to be trained at any one time for a person just looking for supporting grip. There is a difference between wanting to have a strong grip and wanting to support your deadlifts....as far as how that impacts your overall training.

It is easy to overvolumize hand training (and forearm) for one thing. So while you are trying to bring up your deadifts and you launch into some full-bore grip training doing support, crush, pinch and all that you could find yourself, umm, not holding onto your deadlifits. So you may want to keep that for a different phase of your taining and look at training just what you need to support your deadlifts at those times when deadlifting is a priority, i.e. supporting grip, and keep the other stuff to a minumum unless it doesn't affect your abilty to continue advancing.

And we have to keep in mind the training state of the person. The difference between doing deadlfits, and thus having to hold onto them, versus doing nothing or very little is huge. Especially if you use over-over and save alternating grip for when you absolutely need it or when you find the grip coming in question with the over-over. For a beginner, failure really should come into question since you can advance for a bit with straight linear progression and moderate volume. So the grip will be brought along with it and you can do a little bit extra to try to say ahead of the game. Getting ready for what is to come later with more maximal stuff.

But all of that is only about supporting deadlifts and deadlifting is not the only reason to have a grip as strong as possibile. I want to be clear that I am very much a proponent of grip training. I just wouldn't want someone to find themselves using straps on their (relatively light) deadlifts because they start doing a bunch of supplementary grip training. Think about how much sense that makes!

Hook grip, like 0311 said is more an olympic lift thing. Remember they are trying to accelerate a bar that is ultimately lighter than what you would use for deadlift. It won't train the grip. I don't know what that comment about tension in the back, etc. is supposed to mean though. By the time you can support that much weight with a hook grip, I would think your thumb would be really fucked up. But I can't support that much weight unassisted so what do I know?

Stick with that as far as your deadlifting goes. I take it that is what you wanted to know . Is deadlift a good grip strength trainer? NO. Is deadlift good training for gripping deadlifts? Sure. Keeping your grip in front of your deads would be a plus.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.

I guess that about sums it up. It really depends what your goals are etc. As a strongman then grip is probably a huge proponent of your training. Myself, I just lift to get stronger (so far) and my method to grip training has taken me where I need it to. There may be (likely) a day where I'll need supplementary training but for now I see no need to change.

Thanks Eric. Good post.

IronWorker

Good points, Eric.

While there are many types of grip strength, each with their own methods of training, I would suggest that the most valuable for deadlifting would be thick bar holds, or even deadlifting on a thick bar.

It is easy to get out of hand with grip training. Myself, I certainly do a lot of pulling in a week. I do Olympic lifts twice a week, Monday and Thursday, deadlift Tuesday, do some grip specific training Wednesday (pretty low volume), then Saturday is event work (which again is typically pretty low volume). But what I find is that the normal bar supporting grip is truly not close to my full grip strength. So, pulling even close to my DL max isn't taxing on grip at all. Cleans/snatches are stressful in their own way, but not really when it comes to supporting grip. Event work is typically pretty brutal. Lots of heavy work with thick barbells (2-3"), stones, farmers walks (which is far more taxing due to the weight used and the constant jarring as you step. It isn't just holding onto a bar, it is more than that), tire flipping, hand over hand pulls on a 2" rope, etc.

I would say that something as simple as using thick handled DB's for one arm rows http://www.tylergrip.com/ would go a long way towards increasing your supporting grip beyond "adequate." You could also use the Tyler grips for something like shrugs or suitcase deads. Your grip will fail at a much lighter weight with a thick grip, so the total effect on your body as a whole should be pretty light. So something like these exercises could very easily be used as a good supporting lift in a WSBB setup on your DE/RE squat day.

Thanks for the good tips.

IronWorker