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I disagree absolutely and competelty with almost every single thing you said. I've really said all I can...people can believe who they like.

The statement about not recovering any more after a certain time period and lifting too heavy...that's just nonsense, hrdgain. This is so way off I don't see the point in arguing with your about it. Just a little bit of research from anyone reading this thread will lay most of this to rest.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.

I'm not arguing, nor am i jockeying to see who everyone will "believe". I'm just sharing my experience ... its a friendly conversation eric, please dont take it any other way. If you have more info on the subject for me to read i will gladly do so, and you know this. We are here to better ourselves, not argue about who is right.

As for this, perhaps my wording was off, I'm not sure, its hard to tell when I'm typing, but I see validity in it.

What i picture from your example, is someone on bench pushing themselves to failure or past for one or two reps, then thinking if they just wait five minutes and do it again, then they are building strength. Extreme, yes, but you and I both know that happens, and its not safe. And thats what i was cautioning against when I mentioned going to heavy, and rest intervals.

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I don't do this for my family, my friends, women, accolades, pride, or ego. I do it for me and no one else, its just part of who I am.

I didn't mean to imply that either on of use were jockeying. It's just that after a while it gets to the point where both people have presented there opinions and it gets pointless to keep arguing. And I don't mean arguing as fighting...just discussing to differing points of view. And I hate to always be writing novels to explain all my views and and look like a bore .

But when people make certain qualitative satements, like the one about lifting too heavy if you need more rest..that gets into a very complicated discussion...

So let me try to some it up with an equally short statement. If you can lift a certain weight at a certain volume and maintain good quality...then it ain't too heavy. Remember that not all programs are done with intensity cycling like a 5x5. If a rest allows you to lift more weight and get the volume you want...DO IT.

Even when you get into the tables that correlate rest periods with intensity or rep maximums you get something like this as "optimal":

<1 min: >13 RM
1-2 min: 11-13 RM
2-3 min: 8-10 RM
3-5 min: 5-7 RM
>5 min: <5 RM

Now I wouldn't go by that as more than a very general guideline because like Anuj was saying it's the exercise not just the reps. But it should not escape your notice where the general mass/strength thing lies. That is going to be, for all intents and purposes the 5 to 7 RM range...bascially the range that coincides with 5x5 training. Or even 4x6. Of course there are a some slightly lower intensities that can fall into this as well. But you're looking at 3 to 5 minutes basically in terms of "work sets".

My point before about strength/mass I've already made in the Strength and Hypertrophy thread so I won't paraphrase all that again here.

That makes much more sense now eric. And I took your comment about "arguing" wrong. I tend to think in terms of "me" and not "everyone" with this stuff, and I need to get out of that habit. Just because I've never really taken more then 2min rest intervals, doesnt mean others shouldn't, that was shortsited of me.

2 mins is good enough for me also.

thats because you, sir are a lightweight

ok im joking...

Well it's the same thing with me using the word argue. I don't mean it in a negative sense but I have to realize that others often do and choose my words carefully .

At the same time, though, it REALLY pays to let go of your preconceptions and assumptions about things. You say you've never rested more than two minutes and you have no problems. BUT your assuming a lot. Unless you ever try other rest periods you'll never know the possiblilities. Also, even if way back when you rested longer and didn't need it...that has nothing to do with now.

Fatigue management and stress management is something that needs to go on within the workout not just outside of it. The kind of rest periods you take will dictate the kind of fatigue you carry out of the workout and your state of recovery.

Thanks for the help again guys, didn't mean to get every one all riled up. Went with an approximate 3min weight in between sets, don’t have a stop watch so I had to use the clock across the room. Worked out nice since I was able to complete all the reps with more weight than I thought, struggling on the last set but still had good form.

Wasn’t sure about the Ripptoes program since its only three exercises a day, but now I know how stupid I was. I’m walking around work like a robot and just want to cry when I get to steps. Tried to get up out of my chair and ended up falling over. The program definitely has my vote and I’ve only completed one day. Should have listened to Pitty a month ago when he suggested I start with it. Thanks again everyone.

Nobody was riled up. A forum in which everyone agrees with everyone is a forum to avoid. Most people tend to agree with whatever they read once upon a time on bb.com...I tend to say something different which means I'm the one asked to back up what I say. Hey..somebody provide some backup on the 90 seconds isn't sigficant thing and the idea that you nervous system and the phosphogen system doesn't play a role in your ability and how the lactic acid buildup doesn't effect how much volume you can do. I mean something other than "this is what I do". Or not.

I just tend to get a little irritated by the continual insistence that one and a half minutes is pretty much all you need, lol. Good lord that's a short rest period for "strength/mass". 80 to 85 percent by the way is pretty high intensity. Not that you need that phosphagen system or your cns recovery to lift a weight or anything...oh boy.

Nah, just rest as much as you needed. Much to big a deal being made about rest periods. It's long term chronic adapation to progressive overload you are looking for. Not a rest period formula. Just try to keep it in some type of consistent range but don't work in a bodybuilding range when your are on a strength
program.

The soreness will get better as you adapt but if it is too much you can do your squats lighter next time and then load again after that.

Agreed, no riled up people over here. no worries. Just a word of caution, dont rest too long between sets ... you might fall asleep j/k

Now that i think about it eric, with all the different programs, and goals I've had, I wonder how much i actually did rest. Some of the SE routines were very short, and some of the 5x5's were slightly longer, and of course the depletion workouts were almost zero between movements. its an interesting thing to look at in terms of goals, and effects on the body. Like I said before if you have any articles on this I'd love to read them, my intrest is no peaked.