Bodybuilding.net - Bodybuilding Forum

Hey all- Im a newbie.. i need some help -- lol . .
Ive been lifting for years- i used to be more into cardio but now more into training.. I like to be thin, not big- but toned and hard..

I was looking for advice, opinions, suggestions KNOWLEDGE- of all you more experienced.

Ive tried changing my routines-- but I am always stiff, tight etc- esp my shoulders/upperback and legs..
I dont know if I am overtraining-- [bc i am admittedly a stubborn psycho] - ;'} -
or am I training too heavily??
What is better? heavier and less reps? lighter and more reps??

Does anyone know of any proven routines?

also I posted another question on using Stack to get harder. . does anyone hve any comments on this?

first of all its very hard for women to get "big" because they dont produce the amount of testosterone that males do so dont worry about that...for the toned and hard look that comes with diet and cardio. try to do cardio 3-4 times a week around 30-40 min per session, preferably after your weight training. work on stretching your muscles after your workout to help recovery and relieve some of the soreness. stick with about 2-3 sets with about 25 reps each set, and about 30 second rest periods between sets. good luck!

__________________
age-20
6'0" 190lbs
bench press-245x2
a2g squats-455x1-9/7/06
deadlift-475x1-9/5/06

"An ounce of prevention beats a pound of cure."

I actually disagree with that adivice.

Why tell a woman it's hard for her to get bigger (which it is) and then tell her she has to do 25 reps per set? Likewise although cardio may trim you down it won't make your muscles harder only more visible.

If by "toned" you mean visible muscles then by all means do some type of cardio. But there is no pysiological difference between the way a woman's muscles work and a man's. Men don't do 25 reps so why in the world should a woman.

If by "toned" you mean "tonus" or hardness (and you said toned and hard) then lower reps are actually what produces a harder seeming muscle. High reps to tone up is a big old myth that everyone tells women. I have heard women say the higher reps make there muscles "harder" but I tend to thing it's the blood pump doing that temporarily.

We have a Women's Forum now and I think you should read some of the articles that have been posted there. If you tend to be stiff then you should stretch after all your weitht workouts as Lafit suggested. Especially concentrating on those parts that are tightest. The muscles do "shorten" when you work them and some people's have more of a tendency than others to sort of heal that way as if they don't "remember" there proper length. Stretching will take care of this. If you are used to a pump the stretching will reduce it but THAT is OK cuz the pump doesn't matter and as mentioned the stretching will help recovery.

*Edit*

Originally Posted by J. Berardi
There are two types of muscle tone; myogenic and neurogenic. Don't get thrown off by the sciency words; the first simply refers to your muscle tone at rest. It is affected by the density of your muscles; the greater the density of your muscles, the harder and firmer you will appear. Heavy training increases your myogenic tone through the hypertrophy (growth) of the contractile proteins myosin and actin (myosin and actin are by far the most dense components of skeletal muscle).

Training in higher rep ranges promotes more sarcoplasmic (fluid) hypertrophy, which in turn yields a "softer" pumped look. If you want to be hard, firm, tight, etc, the latter is certainly not the way to go. The second aspect of a muscles' tone is neurogenic tone, or the tone that is expressed when movements or contractions occur. Again, lower rep training comes out on top as training with heavy loads will increase the sensitivity of alpha and gamma motor neurons, thus increasing neurogenic tone when conducting even the simplest of movements (i.e. walking, extending your arm to point, etc).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When you see someone who's muslces seem to "ripple" during the slightest everyday movement that is part of that neurogenc tone he is speaking of.

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
or
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.

eric, the reason i mentioned doing 25 reps is that it causes you to burn more calories rather than heavier weights with less reps. thats what i have to do wth my female clients because they rarely come in for cardio so therefore they need all the help they can get so thats why i keep it in the higher rep range for them...i guess i jumped into it too quick with laur, not knowing her routine or any info about her really...so ya... oh and by the way men do 25 reps if not more when gettting ready for a competition...just to let you know

I admit I don't know much about what men do to get ready for competitions. I would point out that people who want to compete comprise a VERY small percentage of people who build their bodies. Therefore I don't really take into consideration "what pro's do". After all the average trainer doesn't do any of the extreme manipulations that pro's go through before a comp. I'll leave that to people who know about it.

What I was responding to, however, was what you said about hardness and tone. I'm sure you have your reasons for what you advise your women clients to do...but I'm curious...how much time have you spent looking at women's forums? Also I was responding to the fact that SO many trainers tell women to do ultra high reps for no other reason but "that'll make you toned and not big".

I was giving advise that I felt would help in her goals. Therfore cardio plus low to moderate reps to produce a "toned" look. But as you say it would be useful to know what Laur is doing. It's up to you how you advize your clients . That doesn't mean I'm going to always agree .

So Laur, why don't you post what you do?

Eric does that mean that you chill on all girls forums when not here? I KNEW IT! jk jk


Seriously though, what I would do is first follow eric's advice, maybe throw on a couple of lbs. of muscle (not much, like we said you dont have the test. levels to look like a mini jay cutler overnight)

THEN I would use Lafit's advice to help chisel it out so when you do lose that weight you revile a hard body, not a soft one. That's what bodybuilders do all the time pre-contest start off heavy many weeks out, then a couple weeks before the show they go high reps.

I would collaborate the two into a super program lol. Just my opinion unless you have muscle under that fat, when you lose the fat you wont look hard and toned, but soft.

Hey, there's no picture under my name. Maybe my real name is Erika .

No, I spent a considerable amount of time doing reasearch to help a freind a couple years back. Can't say I became an expert but I will say not a lot of the more active members were doing 25 kickbacks with pink dumbells and were relying on cardio plus good diet to keep the fat off.

I would have to say that if you are feeling tight, ever, you need to stretch.

Stretching is very very underrated. When you stretch, not only will you releive the soreness, but you will also stretch the actual blood vessels in your muscles, as well as the muscles themselves, allowing for a smooth blood flow.

Smooth Blood Flow = More Oxygen = More Energy = More results

If you feel sore DURING workouts, throw in a stretch between sets.

When working out and stretching, remember also to BREATHE. This is key.

As a woman, stretching should be a vital part of your workout. Stretching your muscles after workouts when your body is warm also increases ur flexibility (which has obvious benefits...) Over time you will notice that, if you are stretching properly, your joints will feel more comfortable in their place (i know it sounds weird but beleive me) and you will definitely be more in touch with your body..

I suggest that any bodybuilder, but especially women, take some yoga classes and learn some basic stretches and how to do them properly. Yoga and stretching for women loosens up the hips and gives a woman more control of her body, and especially her pelvis, which can grow to be painful (especially when considering or recovering from childbirth) The more flexible, the better.....and I see way too many people at the gym stretch improperly..

Hope it helps!

Direct Answers to your questions...

Hey all- Im a newbie.. i need some help -- lol . .
Ive been lifting for years- i used to be more into cardio but now more into training.. I like to be thin, not big- but toned and hard..

I wouldnt worry about getting "big." This means don't hold back. I know a lot of women at the gym doing 10 reps of curls with 5 lb weights because they don't want to get "big". If you do that, nothing will happen...period. You are wasting your time. If you want to move to lifting weights you are looking to put a few pounds of muscle on (which is fine!). Test your body and see what weight u can bang out 12-15 steady, slow reps. When you are on your 12th to 15th rep, you should not be struggling but your muscles should feel tight and hard within the skin with each rep. It should feel good, not like a struggle. Do a few sets like this then change excersizes. This is a good way to start up and get more in touch with your body.

Ive tried changing my routines-- but I am always stiff, tight etc- esp my shoulders/upperback and legs..
I dont know if I am overtraining-- [bc i am admittedly a stubborn psycho] - ;'} -
or am I training too heavily??
What is better? heavier and less reps? lighter and more reps??

As I said in mypost above, you must stretch. I am a BIG advocate of stretching and I can help you out a lot. Send me a PM and I can get more in depth on types of stretches and how they can help you.

Being stiff is good but your body SHOULD not be stiff/sore all the time. It should adjust. Try testing your strength first as I stated above. Also, part of training is learning how to listen to your body. When you have an urge or a pain, analyze it. If you feel a pain in your legs, ask why your legs feel that way. What did you do to cause it and when you were doing that action did it feel too strenuous? Were you only able to do 3 reps on an excersize? Keep your reps above 8, especially if you are trying to get lean and cut. I highly suggest 12-15, as stated above.

Does anyone know of any proven routines?

Before I was involved in bodybuilding and before I did a lot of research, I asked the same question.....to every one. Listen, because if you don't, you will just hear this again ;)......Every body is different Notice i said EVERY BODY not EVERYBODY. Your body is different than my sister's and her body is different than my mother's. You need to learn to listen to your body, find out what it wants, and why it's in pain, and how to fix it. You need to listen to what your body tells u to build muscle/lose fat/gain definiton. Sounds corny, but its how it works.

also I posted another question on using Stack to get harder. . does anyone hve any comments on this?[/QUOTE]

No Comment. I highly discourage people who are still trying to find their way into using suppliments. I didn't start to use suppliments until I did ample research into why I needed them and what they would provide for me. I know nothing about the suppliment you mentioned, but i would discourage it until you learned how to listen to your body and address it's individual needs. You are the only one who will use your body, you might as well as learn to work it on your own!

Hope I helped some! If anyone would like to correct me, please feel free, but I think what I have said is accurate

Quote:

Originally Posted by phreaknite Keep your reps above 8, especially if you are trying to get lean and cut. I highly suggest 12-15, as stated above.

That is in the "high rep" range. Nothing wrong with it and it will produce a some hypertrophy but it will not contribute to looking "cut" in and of itself.