My Old Fart workout

[stonew0rrior]

OK I know after poking around in here you guys are going to have a field day with my workout. One of my close friends that I was in the Corps with is now a cop here in town and he gives me crap all the time for being bull headed. He swears by Westside and keeps telling me that if I were using it instead of my current “Father time periodization technique” I would be a monster. I am 100% natural Except for the usual Whey, Glutamine Creatine, BCAA’s, and Flax seed oil and yes go ahead and laugh Glucosamine. Yes gents I am getting older and my joints are starting to feel it! Anyway for being all natural my best friend is amazed at what I have done in the last ten months so I am asking you guys to look over what I am doing, pick me apart and give me any suggestions you may have. I think my gains are going to be a little slower now and I will be looking to change things up a bit come this August when I go for my new max sets. I put my program into an excel spreadsheet to make it easier for myself, please ignore my homemade calorie counter program; I never thought anyone would see it but me. Thanks for any and all opinions!

[Darkhorse]

Well, if it's working for you, then stick with it...Here's a few things that will help..

I am asking you guys to look over what I am doing, pick me apart and give me any suggestions you may have.

First off, I like your spreadsheet, but you need to rearrange your weeks because they are backwards. ..Unless you plan on starting off with a 400 bench and work your way down to an all out set of 221!

I think six days for someone with joints that are starting to "feel it" is too much. Well, that goes for someone as young as springtime as well. If you are focused on strength (or mass), then you'll need more recovery than a day. Studies have shown that lifting with a frequency of twice a week is more optimal for strength..Hence is why Westside is the "king ding-a-ling" of powerlifting with it's use of an upper/lower split.

You can easily drop the biceps "day" and triceps "day" because it's really IMO a waste of time and will eventually start to give. Running on the powerlifting mentality, your biceps and triceps are treated more as "supplemental" lifts, basically making them an afterthought instead of a two day focus.

Like I said, if it's working, then so be it. However, in my opinion, it doesn't look like your workouts are geared for big strength increases. It looks more like a cross between focusing on hypertrophy for the first half of your training cycle, then strength for the second half. If anything, in my opinion the most optimal way to attain strength is utilizing a Dual Factor protocol. A linnear periodization like what you have is more geared for mass gains. [More on bottom of Dual Factor] The following is part of a post I made referring to Westside:

The laws of physics state:

POWER =s Force x Distance divided by TIME

So, how do you generate more POWER??

1) Heavier resistance moved in the same movement time as lighter over the same distance ( Move HEAVIER weight)

2) Same weight with faster movement time (Be FASTER)

Simply put, you need to work on speed and power vs. lifting anywhere near the 8-15 rep range, especially for the big three, and the high reps should be utilized for the supplemental lifts only. Here are a few links found on this website that can give you some ideas to maybe revise some of your plans..I'm long winded and taking time to post because I really want you to reach a 500 lb bench!!

Very simplified post on Westside: Click Here

Here is my sticky on Dual Factor. Very easy to read, and has two very productive strength programs on there..One called Bill Starr's 5x5 (which in 7 weeks brought my bench from 365x3 to 405x2 natural/raw) Your training uses single factor so make note of that when comparing: Click Here

Good luck Brother!

[hrdgain81]

Well 0311 gave you the skinny on training. I agree on alot of it. especially the six day a week training your doing. you gotta remember overtraining will hinder your gains just as much if not more then under training.

I would like to suggest a joint suppliment called cissus to you. I've used Glucos. condroiten, celedrin, msm ... they all pale in comparison to this stuff. Just a heads up if you wanna check it out.

I know you said your also using whey. and the biggest thing to consider with whey is nutrient timing around your workouts. for your current goals I would be taking in 40-60g whey and 50g dextrose/malto before and after your workout, if you arent already.

keep movin those heavey wieghts big guy.

[stonew0rrior]

Well this program originally was supposed to be only 4 days chest and arms together. But I was going nuts when I first started (I was going cold turkey from at least 2 packs a day) so it was more for filling a void, but I have never been this motivated before all I do is eat sleep dream 500. It is the last thing I think of at night and the first thing in the morning, I’m sure that sounds nuts. I also think my gains have come fast from muscle memory and genetics, my max bench in the Corps was 350 and I have always been a little stronger than the average Joe walking down the street. But I can tell things are starting to get a little harder now and this is when the real work starts. Yes until now it has worked for me but in the back of my head I always knew I wasn’t doing it right but I am a little superstitious and since I just hit a personal best of 400 on the bench I didn’t want to question anything I just wanted to keep going and ride it out. But now that I am talking to other people about it, is making me take the blinders off. I probably will go back to 4 days. And yes week 16 is week one and the first four weeks are designed as a conditioning phase and up to mid point in the cycle your supposed to use the lighter weight to explode through the exercises preparing your body for the heavier loads to come, progressively increasing in weight each week. At the end of the cycle you should be looking at gaining 25 or more lbs to each main lift. In your opinion are these kinds of gains achievable in Westside for a natural lifter?

[Darkhorse]

At the end of the cycle you should be looking at gaining 25 or more lbs to each main lift. In your opinion are these kinds of gains achievable in Westside for a natural lifter?

Absolutely. Depending on how smart you're lifting, you could see a lot more.

I like your lactic acid training ideas. Straight from the HST book, although two weeks IMO is plenty. If you are looking for the conditioning, then I wouldn't go lower than 15 reps.

Make sure to read the DFT sticky. If you aren't going to do a Westside template, then I'd recommend doing two 4 week blocks of Accumulation and Intensification

You can also alternate between cycles of incomplete vs complete recovery which is often called accumulation/intensification. Version A I described above (training with full recovery), will work wonderfully when transitioning from a period of increased loading. In other words, accumulate fatigue and train frequently for a while and then transition into a period of time where you train with full recovery between sessions for a while. Say you train 3 x per week for 3-4 weeks and then once every 4 days for 4 weeks. Your gains will be out of this world during the 2nd phase because you heighten your ability to adapt in the first phase. That works very well.

Basically, if you aren't going to do something structured like Westside, then I would do your conditioning/lactate training seperate. Two to three weeks is more than enough. From there I'd plan Accumulation and Intensification phases with a deload week inbetween. I'll pm you something so you'll understand what I'm trying to say. In the meantime, you could look at this writeup by Kelly Baggett here

With what you have, you aren't doing anything to increase the speed of your lifts, which is half the battle right there. You also are not switching out any of your big lifts for similiar ones, which Westside incorperated to prevent neural burnout. I'll also caution you against the high amount of volume you're doing. If you are getting progressively heavier and heavier while doing 3-4 slight variations of the same exercise which works the same muscle, then you're maybe looking at overuse injuries. Trust me, torn pecs aren't fun. One more point to make is that cardio is needed. You said that you are doing a six day split because it'll keep you on the straight and narrow, but IMO you could easily input some cardio in there, which will help your joints heal and keep you with a healthy heart and increased stamina. I'm not saying to do a three mile PFT, just a brisk 45 minute walk is more than enough!

[hrdgain81]

I have never been this motivated before all I do is eat sleep dream 500. It is the last thing I think of at night and the first thing in the morning, I’m sure that sounds nuts.

Sounds nuts? ahhaha your talking to those who have very similar mental afflictions brother. That sounds perfectly sane to me.

I wish i had more to interject, but i havent gone the power lifting route yet. I will keep an eye on what your doing so i can learn from what your doing.

Hopefully my buddy RoryL will chime in here, the man is sick in the PLing department.

[stonew0rrior]

Basically, if you aren't going to do something structured like Westside, then I would do your conditioning/lactate training seperate. Two to three weeks is more than enough. From there I'd plan Accumulation and Intensification phases with a deload week inbetween. I'll pm you something so you'll understand what I'm trying to say.


Thank you for the info, I went through everything you gave me in detail today (Still digesting it all) and have run some Internet searches of my own. I did not get the PM?

[Darkhorse]

Originally Posted by stonew0rrior

Thank you for the info, I went through everything you gave me in detail today (Still digesting it all) and have run some Internet searches of my own. I did not get the PM?

LOL, I haven't had time. I'll send it to you soon for sure. It's a basic summation of the dft sticky and how to get the most out of your training by incorperating planned deloads and alternating intensity.

Also, I know this is "supposed" to be your journal. So if you'd like, I can move this to the training forum so all these ideas and questions won't ruin your journal. That way you can make a New Journal where it can become your baby.

[stonew0rrior]

Cool, sounds good to me. To be honest I am still trying to figure this web site out, like My Senior D.I. used to say, “Stone your not the smartest but dam you are strong” :-)