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Please Critique Routine!!



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  #11  
Old 08-06-2008, 08:22 AM
Andrew.cook Andrew.cook is offline
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I read it a few times and never saw the "its for mass" thing. Sheesh.
I'm getting old.

2 days a week isn't bad, honestly. Still, I would say that there is a finite amount of work what you can do in two days. So while you may be able to do around an hour three days a week, I wouldn't assume that around an hour and a half would necessarily be equal or better. You will probably need to stick with a more basic routine. Nothing wrong with basics, they are the meat and potato of any program... or should be.

So I would suggest a plan like this:
For each day, I would pick a lift that you really want to improve. Something that you will work on for the purpose of strength and monitoring progress. IE, the squat. So on day one of every week you will squat with the sole goal in mind of getting stronger. I'm not going to cover programming here. There are lots of ways to skin that cat, and you will need to pick something that appeals to you (20 rep, 5x5, 3x8, 5x3, etc). Regardless, the goal is to add weight to the bar. On your day two you would have a lift that was equally important to you that you would focus on.

So let's say that you pick a primary lift that hits the legs (squat) and chest (flat bench). You would likely want to make your second lift something that will hit one of the other two large muscle groups (shoudlers or back) or maybe something that supports the first lift. Either way you go, I would make a short list of exercises for this second muscle group. 2-3 lifts that you will rotate through week to week. So let's just say you pick back exercises (DB rows, BB rows and pullups), and shoulders (military press, hand stands for time, and face pulls). Keep these in a higher rep range (8-20) and make attempts to set a PR in this rep range every time out. It won't always happen, but that should be the goal. Then on your third and fourth lift, think hard about what it is that you have not already planned to cover for the week, but that you would like to hit. Maybe calves, neck, forearms, curls, triceps, abs, etc... you get the picture. Smaller muscle groups. Rotate these exercises as your mood changes. They are all supporting in nature, so it won't matter much what you do, they will all support function in the larger lifts.

So from there you really only need to decide what rep ranges to use, how you will make progress, what happens when you stop making progress ( do you deload, do you switch exercises to focus on, do you keep working until you break past your barrier?) and pick your poison where exercises are concerned.

I would say that more than 3-4 exercises in a day seems to be overkill. I would also look at no more than 3-5 sets for your second exercise, and no more than 1-2 sets for your third and forth. This will ensure that you give all you have to give in a limited number of tries. The idea that you should just keep pounding away is counter productive. Do what you came to do then get the freak out of dodge.

Write everything you do in a log book. It is simply the most important tool you can use to prove that what you did worked. It is the justification that supports the means helping you attain your end. Memory and "thinking" won't cut it for most people. Write it down and KNOW that it works or that something needs to change.
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  #12  
Old 08-06-2008, 12:33 PM
Zig-Zag-Zig Zig-Zag-Zig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew.cook View Post
I read it a few times and never saw the "its for mass" thing. Sheesh.
I'm getting old.

2 days a week isn't bad, honestly. Still, I would say that there is a finite amount of work what you can do in two days. So while you may be able to do around an hour three days a week, I wouldn't assume that around an hour and a half would necessarily be equal or better. You will probably need to stick with a more basic routine. Nothing wrong with basics, they are the meat and potato of any program... or should be.

So I would suggest a plan like this:
For each day, I would pick a lift that you really want to improve. Something that you will work on for the purpose of strength and monitoring progress. IE, the squat. So on day one of every week you will squat with the sole goal in mind of getting stronger. I'm not going to cover programming here. There are lots of ways to skin that cat, and you will need to pick something that appeals to you (20 rep, 5x5, 3x8, 5x3, etc). Regardless, the goal is to add weight to the bar. On your day two you would have a lift that was equally important to you that you would focus on.

So let's say that you pick a primary lift that hits the legs (squat) and chest (flat bench). You would likely want to make your second lift something that will hit one of the other two large muscle groups (shoudlers or back) or maybe something that supports the first lift. Either way you go, I would make a short list of exercises for this second muscle group. 2-3 lifts that you will rotate through week to week. So let's just say you pick back exercises (DB rows, BB rows and pullups), and shoulders (military press, hand stands for time, and face pulls). Keep these in a higher rep range (8-20) and make attempts to set a PR in this rep range every time out. It won't always happen, but that should be the goal. Then on your third and fourth lift, think hard about what it is that you have not already planned to cover for the week, but that you would like to hit. Maybe calves, neck, forearms, curls, triceps, abs, etc... you get the picture. Smaller muscle groups. Rotate these exercises as your mood changes. They are all supporting in nature, so it won't matter much what you do, they will all support function in the larger lifts.

So from there you really only need to decide what rep ranges to use, how you will make progress, what happens when you stop making progress ( do you deload, do you switch exercises to focus on, do you keep working until you break past your barrier?) and pick your poison where exercises are concerned.

I would say that more than 3-4 exercises in a day seems to be overkill. I would also look at no more than 3-5 sets for your second exercise, and no more than 1-2 sets for your third and forth. This will ensure that you give all you have to give in a limited number of tries. The idea that you should just keep pounding away is counter productive. Do what you came to do then get the freak out of dodge.

Write everything you do in a log book. It is simply the most important tool you can use to prove that what you did worked. It is the justification that supports the means helping you attain your end. Memory and "thinking" won't cut it for most people. Write it down and KNOW that it works or that something needs to change.
Thanks alot!! That was very good advice. Based on it I made this:

DAY1 Bench
Flat 3 x 6-8
Incline -or- Dumbell Flys 3 x 8-12
Military Press 2 x 8-12
Skullcrushers 2 x 10

DAY2 Squat
Squat 2-3 x 20,12,8
DL 2 x 8
Shrugs -or- Leg Curls 2 x 12-15
Calves 2 x 15

DAY3 Pullups
Pullups 3 to failure
Rows 2-3 x 8-12
Curls 2 x 10
Abs 2 x 15

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  #13  
Old 08-06-2008, 12:58 PM
Andrew.cook Andrew.cook is offline
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I think that squat, DL, shrug day is going to be a bit much.

What I was getting at was something more like this (flexible):
Flat bench: 3x6
Pick one: (Incline DB, Military press, Arnold press) 2x12
Triceps: 2x20
rear delt: 2x10

Squat: 2x15
Pick one: (Barbell rows, Shrugs, DB rows) 3x8
Calves: 2x30
Abs: 3x20

Pull ups: 3x10 (weighted if necessary)
Pick one: (pullovers, medicine ball wall throw, straight arm pull down) 3x8
Biceps: 2x10
low back work: 2x20

Keep some of your "planned work" vague, but centered around a specific lift or body part. So in your "pick one" you are chosing between three lifts that all have the same functional grouping. Some will call out a specific body part, and you lead off the workout with a specific lift. Bench, squat, pullup.

I would drop the DL, or at the very least move it to day three and pick three different variations of the pull up as your pick one.
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  #14  
Old 08-07-2008, 11:21 AM
Zig-Zag-Zig Zig-Zag-Zig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew.cook View Post
I think that squat, DL, shrug day is going to be a bit much.

What I was getting at was something more like this (flexible):
Flat bench: 3x6
Pick one: (Incline DB, Military press, Arnold press) 2x12
Triceps: 2x20
rear delt: 2x10

Squat: 2x15
Pick one: (Barbell rows, Shrugs, DB rows) 3x8
Calves: 2x30
Abs: 3x20

Pull ups: 3x10 (weighted if necessary)
Pick one: (pullovers, medicine ball wall throw, straight arm pull down) 3x8
Biceps: 2x10
low back work: 2x20

Keep some of your "planned work" vague, but centered around a specific lift or body part. So in your "pick one" you are chosing between three lifts that all have the same functional grouping. Some will call out a specific body part, and you lead off the workout with a specific lift. Bench, squat, pullup.

I would drop the DL, or at the very least move it to day three and pick three different variations of the pull up as your pick one.
I tried the first workout today. I actually went with mine but the only difference in yours is the rear delts, and isn't isolating those unnecessary because they are done with rows and pullups? I'm actually not sure, but I went for the front/side delts instead cause those need more work-so my workout went like this:

Bench x 3 (not including warm-up)
Incline x 3
Military x 3 (instead of rear delts)
Skullcrushers x 2

I know I wasn't supposed to do the last 2 exercises more that 1-2 times, but DAMN...this workout was so short (1/2 HOUR!) compared to what I used to do (~1 hour). By no means is it bad, it just feels really strange and I had so much energy I just wanted to throw all these extras in there, but I restrained myself and just did an extra press . Now I'm not so sure that the squat and DL day will be too much!
Anyways, I was wondering whether you recommend doing this routine to failure every time, and how much time you think I should rest in between sets?
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  #15  
Old 08-07-2008, 11:23 AM
Zig-Zag-Zig Zig-Zag-Zig is offline
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Oh, and any other recommendations (by anyone) besides the above mentioned will be greatly appreciated.
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  #16  
Old 08-07-2008, 11:36 AM
Andrew.cook Andrew.cook is offline
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I wouldn't get caught up in the time... and if you are doing the work, fewer sets would be necessary to work to your current capacity. Think of it as quasi-HIT in nature, but I hate trying to hit any weight without some prep work, so I always do at least two sets, one lighter for a set number of reps, then typically my second set is heavier, and as many reps as I can manage out in a specific time period. Even if I rest a bit, the total amount of work done is defined by the time limit. So consider that quasi DC in nature.

As for rear delts, it has been my experience that rows are not really adequate, and truthfully most people don't have lateral delt issues so much as rear delt issues. But hey, it is YOUR work and I do encourage you to call it as you see it.
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  #17  
Old 08-07-2008, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew.cook View Post
As for rear delts, it has been my experience that rows are not really adequate, and truthfully most people don't have lateral delt issues so much as rear delt issues. But hey, it is YOUR work and I do encourage you to call it as you see it.
agreed...throw in some face pulls...rear flyes...prone trap raises..
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  #18  
Old 08-07-2008, 08:51 PM
Zig-Zag-Zig Zig-Zag-Zig is offline
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Originally Posted by Andrew.cook View Post
I wouldn't get caught up in the time... and if you are doing the work, fewer sets would be necessary to work to your current capacity. Think of it as quasi-HIT in nature, but I hate trying to hit any weight without some prep work, so I always do at least two sets, one lighter for a set number of reps, then typically my second set is heavier, and as many reps as I can manage out in a specific time period. Even if I rest a bit, the total amount of work done is defined by the time limit. So consider that quasi DC in nature.

As for rear delts, it has been my experience that rows are not really adequate, and truthfully most people don't have lateral delt issues so much as rear delt issues. But hey, it is YOUR work and I do encourage you to call it as you see it.
I'll throw some rear delts in there somewhere. Sighhhhhhhh...this shit is giving me a headache. I'm just gonna do my squat and pullup days and change them according to my experience rather than sitting here racking my brain. I will post the final product in about a week.
I also plan to do intensity cycling with this routine. How many weeks is usually spent on the "intense" phase before gains stop coming? Thanks!
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  #19  
Old 08-08-2008, 04:14 AM
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^^^ Just depends on how you set it up. Are you familiar with periodization?
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  #20  
Old 08-08-2008, 08:34 AM
Zig-Zag-Zig Zig-Zag-Zig is offline
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^^^ Just depends on how you set it up. Are you familiar with periodization?
Not really. I just know it's when you fluctuate intensity during certain periods...
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