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green6767 01-17-2008 03:15 PM

Question about current stack and schedule
Hello all. Just wanted to start out by saying I've enjoyed reading the forums over the last few weeks and have found out a lot of good information on here. Its my first post and I have some questions about my stack and lifting schedule. Here we go.

Im 22, 5'7", 145 lbs. During high school when I was extremely physically active with sports I was lifting and supplementing quite a bit. I was smart with it though and took bare minimums for safety at such a young age. Most just Whey Protein and some creatine monohydrate. Back then, I was around 165 lbs with about 6% body fat. I wrestled religiously and I've always had an extremely high metabolism. I don't think I've ever been over 8% body fat. Im sick at the fact that I've lost over 20 lbs of muscle in the past couple years and I want to do something about it. Im in college and have access to a phenomenal gym here on campus. Here are my questions:

I've put together a pretty solid routine for a 4 day spread. I've done a lot of reading of other posts and feel confident about my lifting routine. So I don't really have questions about that, more about supplements, when to take them, when to take them according to each other and so on.

Here is my stack:

- Pro Labs N Large 2
- ON's 100% Whey Protein
- American Sports Creatine Monohydrate
- Glutamine

Im keeping it pretty basic and the reason for the weight gainer, is Im a fairly hard gainer due to a very high metabolism. I eat (very well) constantly.

Im lifting Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday. Here are the questions.

1. Should the creatine be taking before or after workout? How bout the glutamine? How about on off days?

2. Which of those supplements should not be taken together and how long apart should I give for certain ones to be ingested for proper digestion and absorption?

2. The N Large 2 has lots of protein in it (like 52 grams per serving). Can I substitute this for the after workout whey protein? Or should I limit the weight gainer to morning and evening type supplement for calories? How about on off days?

I know this is a lot for a first post. Im sorry it got so long, Im just kind of excited to get back into lifting again and after reading so many promising posts, I was eager to get some answers I can be confident in. Thanks for reading!!!

Kane 01-17-2008 04:16 PM

I can answer a couple questions and give a bit of advice.

Take your creatine before and after you workout or when you wake up on non-lifting days. I'm not sure about the glutamine, but I know its in some protein mixes so you might just take it with the shake.

Usually when its time for me to take my supps, they're all going down at once (protein and creatine usually for lifting days). So unless your noticing discomfort it shouldn't matter that you're combining things. Its a personal preference as far I've seen.

Take a shake before your workout, how long before will depend on you but I would try 20 minutes to start. Take another shake right after you workout. On off days you can have a shake here or there with a meal but I would highly suggest you address your diet with real foods and not supplements.

My last piece of advice is , imo, the most important. Get away from N-Large 2. Yes it has 52 grams of protein, but you need 4 scoops (and 152grams) to get that! Plus the stuff is so expensive you'll be spending over a hundred dollars on the stuff each month! Think about the serving sizes, 4 scoops pre and 4 post means 8 scoops per workout day, 4 workout days means 32 scoops a week. 32 scoops a week is an ungodly amount of protein. You can get weight gainers for much much cheaper and much better proportions and servings. Typically with a decent whey you can get a 35g serving with 25g of protein, weightgainers are a bit different because they have carbs and fats and maybe even some extra BCAAs (which N-Large has I believe) but thats besides the point, N-Large still blows.

My answer is a bit out of order becuase I was thinking of thing to add as I was writing, but the majority of your questions should be answered :D

TALO 01-17-2008 04:40 PM

I agree with what Kane has said. Please post your diet. Everyone says how well they eat, until it's written down. Hey, maybe yours is good, but your trying to gain weight so you have to eat lots. If you can do it with food not supplements. I would say get rid of the n-large as well (I wouldn't even get weight gainer) You have your protein so that 's good. You need some fast carbs (dextrose) and slow carbs (oatmeal) for after a workout. Dextrose is cheap. WaxyMaize is too, and very effective.

green6767 01-17-2008 09:10 PM

TALO, you are abosolute right about the whole "eating well" thing. I started to write down a typical daily diet for me and well, maybe its not as good as I initially thought it was. Here is a pretty typical dailly diet:

Morning (6:30 - 7:00 am)
- 1 serving of oatmeal with raisins
- toast/english muffin/plain bagel with peanut butter
- 1 to 2 glasses of 2% milk
- Banana/Apple/Kiwi/ or some other convenient, portable fruit
- Power Bar if for some reason I skip the majority of breakfast
- I usually take a Powerbar or Zone bar with me because the next time I will get to eat is around 1:15 pm or so.

Workout (Noon)(Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri)

Lunch (1:15 or so)
- I eat whatever is in the Dining Center that day at school (NDSU). They have quite a variety to choose from, so I try to eat clean calories and carbs and proteins. Rice, poultry, fish, lean beef, etc. I just kinda grab what they have that specific day with a glass or two of milkjuice. They tend to have a wide range of good things to eat. So Im thinking I wont need much help here.

Dinner (around 6:00 pm)
- Main course will either be poultry/fish/beef/venison
- Vegetables or some kind (for nutrients really)
- Some kind of carbs (rice/bread/pasta)
- cottage cheese
- glass or two of milk/water

This is where Im pretty much stuck as far as diet goes. That will conclude my main meals and then I will just grab a snack or two (not junk though) till I go to bed around 11:00 pm or Midnight. I have a very fast metabolic rate and sadly, my appetite isn't that great either. Maybe I can train that too? I dont think Im reaching the 3000 calorie intake that I'd like to be at.

I've seen a spreadsheet type program that you can track the calorie, protein, fat, carbs and such that you eat in a day. Aswell as workout routines, weight, notes and all kinds of things. I've seen it referenced on this forum at leat a couple times too.

As a college student trying to get into Dental School, its tough to keep a strict schedule of diet and calorie intake alongside the rigorous homework and such. Sucks.

I think I need help in the food area though. I will take a look at the stickies that have been mentioned in a lot of previous threads when it comes to a question about "what should I eat" type of thing. Any input here is greatly appreciated though.

By the way, I did not include any supplementation to any of that above, so feel free to throw in some advice as to when/how I should be taking certain supplements if needed.

Jeffo 01-18-2008 01:22 AM

Hi Green,

Welcome to the forum. Dental school? I hear that's a b!tch to get into.

There's nothing wrong with the foods you're eating. What you'll need to do is keep track of how much you're eating as well. Three meals a day and a small 4th before bed is fine at this point. Shoot for 3000 cals a day, spread out over your three meals relatively evenly, and monitor your weight. If you're not gaining 1-2 lbs per week at the moment, up your cals to 3500. If that doesn't get it moving, up it to 4000. At some point, you'll want to start spliting meals up and and eating 4 or even 5 meals a day instead of 3. Don't forget your small extra before bed. You should be able to gain 1-2 lbs per week for 12 weeks or so without much concern.

At this point I'd forget the supplements totally. Weight gainers are usually convenient but expensive, and Glutamine is well-hyped but that's it. Creatine, well, at least learn how to gain weight without it before you add it to the mix. You may find, like I have, that Creatine doesn't help over a solid anabolic caloric surplus.

Protien powder is a good choice, however. It's convenient and cheaper per gram than other sources. Use it pre and post workout if you want, or when there's just no time to prepare something to eat.

That's my advice anyway. Hope it helps.


TALO 01-18-2008 08:44 AM

I think that you need more protein in your breakfast, by this I mean fast protein (egg whites).I'm not a huge fan of the protein bar (or zone bar).

If your working out at noon, Try to have a protein shake (50g) aprox 20 mins before you workout. As soon as your done working out you must have another 50-60g protein and 60-80g of carbs. Dextrose (or waxymaize) is a very good fast carb (say 40-60 of this) then 20g of a slow carb (oatmeal). Then within a hr or 1 1/2 hrs have another 30g carb and as much protein as you can take.

It's hard to tell how many calories you are eating with out knowing the amount of it 1 or 2 chicken breasts, is it 1 or 2 cups of beef....etc.

Eating four times a day is ok , but if you can, go for more just make sure that most of your food (over 60%) comes from FOOD, not supplements.

As for supplements. Fish oils are great, creatine is good for before and after a workout, whey protein , multi vit/mineral, and since there is so much talk about green tea, go out and pick up a box of 100 bags for $5 and drink it through out the day.If you can pick up some powder carbs this will help for after your workouts.

green6767 01-18-2008 09:40 AM

Well, Im taking steps to figure out how much my current calorie intake by recording what Im eating each day and how much of each. I like the "Fit Day" program as it has everything I've needed so far and specs for each food. I think by doing this, I can fill in or take out certain areas that I lack or surplus in.

I can definitely take a shake before and after a workout. After my workout, I head to lunch (only a couple block away, Dining Center). Should I take my protein shake with my lunch? With water or milk?

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