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Yes.

And that doctor who has no empathy to his patient's feelings and pains but has the same machine to hook them all up to giving standardized answers....you could compare that to a standardized answer to every question a newbie might ask.

Everybody is different and thus the advice given them needs to reflect that. Hell, I give Rippetoe advice all over the place and I'm already trying to repair damage done by that kind of one size fits all advice.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.

Exactly! We're all guilty of that from time to time. That leads me to my next point.

Personally, having been a part of a few different bodybuilding communities for the past three years, oftentimes the CORRECT answer isn't always entirely welcome. Sometimes, if anyone asks a question about which day to place 'legs day' on in their 5 day split, it's NOT a cry for help to construct full body workouts. We all know what's OPTIMAL for some lifters, sure, but we also know that many people do very well split training. Shit, back when I started lifting, I didn't have access to these forums, so I did a 5 day split lol. I gained from 170 lbs in high school to 220 lbs just after the Marines doing my "random bouts of lifting". The ONLY correct answer is to be CONSISTANT with whatever you're doing! Of course, I'm not saying NOT to recommend something optimal w/ a greater frequency, just that the poster shouldn't have 5x5's shoved up his ass everytime he asks a question LMAO.

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What are you like reading my mind? This is exactly what I've been thinking about lately.

And I'm guilty of some of those things. Not that there is a lot of 'wrongness' associated with trying to suggest more optimal thing as you say but you know, that doesn't mean 5x5 is the only optimal thing in existence. That's kind of why I reacted the way I did about the sticky thing. Not just about 5x5 but to the idea in general that it represents. Because shoving the stickies up everyone's ass is no different than shoving 5x5 in a way.

What I have learned or rather, what I will change: I will be more concerned about making sure people won't be DAMAGED by what they are donig rather than asserting myself in terms of "what is optimal". At least in terms of people who are doing something they are happy with and that they are making progress with.

As far as what is "damaging" that can be a complicated question.

I mean, just with the 5x5 thing you've got many people running around thinking they need to do continuous 5x5's for the rest of their lives. Which I CERTAINLY don't recommend.

Most definately. The most prevelant example in these forums is when someone posts their routine in the training forum who isn't gaining at all.. It's a 5 day split with tons of volume, the same typical routine we've seen a dozen times. The way I view cases like this is to dress up what he's currently doing vs. throwing him off the deep end doing three full body workouts a week. 9/10, he'll take the high volume he's used to and apply it three times a week (ie. doing front, side, rear delts, and going down the list lol). Instead, why not cut down most of that volume, dress up his exercise/set/rep selections, and focus on gaining some strength? In other words, SUBTLE changes to one's regieme can have a significant impact on results.

That said, if said lifter is open to the idea of hitting his muscles two or three times a week, then fucking 'A'!

Another example. You get a guy who's lost a ton of fat and has been steadily putting on lean mass. Looking much better, not fat at all and getting some good definition. He has fairly specific goals and want to just achieve a good recomp while keeping as much fat off as possible.

What's the first thing he hears?

Time to BULK man! Get massive!

I just want to chime in and apologize for the way I treated some new member recently. On one hand I agree with Eric about the people who come in here and are disrespectful and just making demands about their training and diet. Those people I have zero patience with and find myself not wanting to invest time or effort into helping them...but lately I have taken that same attitude with some innocent people just looking for guidance. I will make an effort to be more understanding of new members of this forum, considering I am one myself! I want people to feel the same comfort and support that I felt when I first stumbled onto this site. I really felt like people cared here and I dont want to be the person to ruin that.

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"You can succeed if nobody else believes it, but you will never succeed if you don't believe in yourself."
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22 yrs old
6'3 220lbs
Goals: Add lean mass and cut body fat.

good thread. i too have been part of the problem.

LOL, now you're reading MY mind.

All good points guys, and I agree with most of it, especially when it comes to the training forum, and prob the diet forum too. But honestly how many times can you answer the same questions about cee before you lose your mind?

I'm all for discussion, but my point is only this, if your too lazy to read the stickies, then why am I going out of my way? I have no problem helping people that want to help themselves, and I see nothing wrong with saying, read the stickies, and if you still have questions then please post them.

I do agree that on most boards when you ask generic questions the flaming of "search button newb" and "read the stickies ass" or whatever stupid responses come up are just rediculous, and I dislike that very much. But honestly the only time I see stuff like that here is when newbies get attitude about people not tailoring them a diet and training routine after they have 4 posts.

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