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Doug's starting from scratch, need help!! Journal



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  #471  
Old 04-07-2009, 06:05 PM
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Good post,Riddick
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  #472  
Old 04-07-2009, 06:46 PM
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I already commented about his form, Eric already commented on his form, Riddick has, I think Ross threw his hat in too.

I provided him links (which he claims to have read) to Eric's blog, his site, and to Cressey's deadlifting articles.

Then somebody pops on and tells him he needs to get more upright and for some reason Doug thinks that means you squat your deadlift. Its explicitly said that you don't fuckin do that in the links I provided. For fuck sakes, you don't even have to read them, just look at the damn pictures and videos and you should realize you're doing it wrong!

So don't bother Wolf (or Riddick), its a lost fuckin cause.
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  #473  
Old 04-07-2009, 08:11 PM
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Thanks for the heads up, Kane. I remember reading his journal a while ago, helping him in his thread in the training section, I read all the links which were provided, I even initially helped out in this journal but then I weaned off and when I checked back yesterday I saw 135 lbs Deadlift done so badly I was like wtf....But yeah, it makes sense. A lost cause.

Doug, if you ever want to shape up, let us know. Till then...chao.
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  #474  
Old 04-08-2009, 04:52 AM
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Quote:
Doug, if you ever want to shape up, let us know. Till then...chao.
K, see ya guys then..

Thanks for tryin'
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  #475  
Old 04-08-2009, 04:53 AM
Riddick2112 Riddick2112 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Wolf_ View Post
I am well aware of the fact that it takes time to get form down. BUT, you also have to look at results. If you've spent 3-4 months trying to get form down and you STILL haven't gotten it down right, there IS a problem. EVERYTHING I have learnt has been self taught - all I have had to refer to are articles and stuff Eric has handed down to me. But in actually LEARNING the lifts I have had to do it on my own. I have also trained quite a few people and if you follow my journal you'll notice I put a lot of videos of other guys doing things like OVerhead Squats or heavy benches or deadlifts who train with/under me.

The deadlift is not that complicated.

1.) You don't squat the bar up. You pull it.
2.) You need to use leg drive otherwise you will be at a mechanical disadvantage. I am not going to get into what a proper deadlift is but there is a middle ground between using only leg drive and using none. You need to stick to the middle ground to get the best of both worlds.
3.) Your back needs to be straight with your shoulder blades retracted. This the STARTING point of a good set-up.
4.) Once you got your feet at a good distance, your shoulders retracted, your shoulders ahead of the bar, lower back arched, abs tight and flexed, getting your ass at the right point is mostly natural.

This is NOT that hard to do. It's like a 5 step process:
1.) Shoulder blades retracted
2.) Decent foot stance (buy new shoes, doug because those shoes SUCK BALLS to deadlift in)
3.) Lower back arched
4.) Abs tight
5.) You bend down, grab the bar and your butt WILL fall into place.

The Deadlift is a PULL not a squat.

And yes, 0:41 was the right position to start at. But the shoes need to go. You MUST use flat shoes.
no disrespect intended and i agree the deadlift is not that complicated but to say that everyone should have their form down in 3-4 months is ludicrous. Some of us have trained for years and years and we're still improving points on our lifts. I'd bet the farm you didnt have all your lifts perfect in so short a time either but i could be wrong. i dont think Doug would have nearly as much of a problem with this lift if he had a good on the spot coach, but he doesnt. some people pick this shit up faster than others do. I really feel that his biggest problem is where his shoulders are in relation to the bar, the rest is not too bad. It may end up that the deadlift is just not for him but he's getting close and i see no reason to write him off as a lost cause at this point. hell there are tons of vids on youtube of people deadlifting 1,000 times worse than him and with waaaaaaaay too much weight.

anyway your points are valid and yes i agree the squishy shoes should go!
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  #476  
Old 04-08-2009, 06:52 AM
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He's a lost cause because he's been given the same information over and over and is back to square one with the same problems. If he'd read something and pay attention to the information he'd have this problem solved by now.

How many times do you have to tell someone to get their shoulders over the bar and stop squatting it?

It was the same fuckin shit back in February when he stalled on bench. I helped him, Pity helped, probably a few more too, but he just doesn't listen. Smarten the fuck up.
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  #477  
Old 04-08-2009, 07:12 AM
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I read this whole journal again, Kane. You're right as usual.
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  #478  
Old 04-18-2009, 02:51 PM
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Well let's see:

Doug was given a lot of pointers and reading material which should have pointed him in the direction of a good setup.

Then I came into the journal and noticed, after that, some people telling him to GET HIS BUTT DOWN and some other general bad deadlift pointers.

I could be remembering wrong but I'm pretty sure this happened. No wonder he's confused being given contradictory advice and really useless pointers by people who should no better.

Probably I'll get a lot of whining now but I really am over it.

GET YOU BUTT DOWN is one of the worst things you can possibly say as a deadlift pointer. To be be followed by GET YOUR BUTT UP.

You can't tell exactly what to do with their hips. It WILL screw them up. I know, I learned this by screwing people up.

I just wrote another thing over at GUS and have written countless pages on it already but it just doesn't stick.

Jim Shmitz said something like "the hips (butt) should be higher than the knees and lower than the shoulders". That was a tongue in cheek way of saying the hip position will be slightly different for everyone but it'll be between the knees and shoulders.

There is not reference formula you can give someone that will derive the perfect hip position.

Everything needs to be set up relative to the bar.

I'll write it out yet again (this may be the one-thousandth time). I know this is re-iterating some of the things that Kane just said.

1. Stance should be shoulder width or a little less. I'd say most people will feel more comfortable with a little less unless you have particularly wide hips.

2. Feet should be underneath the bar to about mid foot. Some people will have their shins maybe two inches from the bar but certainly no further than that. Closer is better.

5. Lumbar (lower back) should be set in a tight natural arch. The thoracic spine (upper mid/upper back) should be extended and the shoulders up and back. The scapula retracted and depressed (the shoulder blade pulled together and down).

3. Shoulders should be FORWARD of the BAR. So that the bar itself is in line with the scapula (shoulder blades). In other words the bar is underneath you scapula. Imagine a plumb bob hanging down form the scapula to the bar.

5. The hips should be as close to the bar as possible without the shoulders coming back. THIS is the one that most people miss and how they end up with their hips slightly too high or low, I think.

The back will NEVER be vertical on a conventional deadlift or even close to it.

The back will NEVER be parallel to the ground.

It WILL be somewhere in between.

I've noticed that a lot of people are shouting "your butt's too high" on this forum when it's not. I think that perhaps they are getting too caught up in this whole stiff-legged deadlift thing. You'll know it when someone is stiff-legging it. Don't get paranoid and start obsessing over high butts
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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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  #479  
Old 04-18-2009, 07:50 PM
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Sumos, sumos , sumos

Sorry could help throwing a spanner in there!
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  #480  
Old 04-19-2009, 09:18 AM
EricT EricT is offline
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Oh I know you like Sumos because it's an excuse not to work on your conventionals ...you're not fooling me.
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