Well let's see:
Doug was given a lot of pointers and reading material which should have pointed him in the direction of a good setup.
Then I came into the journal and noticed, after that, some people telling him to GET HIS BUTT DOWN and some other general bad deadlift pointers.
I could be remembering wrong but I'm pretty sure this happened. No wonder he's confused being given contradictory advice and really useless pointers by people who should no better.
Probably I'll get a lot of whining now but I really am over it.
GET YOU BUTT DOWN is one of the worst things you can possibly say as a deadlift pointer. To be be followed by GET YOUR BUTT UP.
You can't tell exactly what to do with their hips. It WILL screw them up. I know, I learned this by screwing people up.
I just wrote another thing over at GUS and have written countless pages on it already but it just doesn't stick.
Jim Shmitz said something like "the hips (butt) should be higher than the knees and lower than the shoulders". That was a tongue in cheek way of saying the hip position will be slightly different for everyone but it'll be between the knees and shoulders.
There is not reference formula you can give someone that will derive the perfect hip position.
Everything needs to be set up relative to the bar.
I'll write it out yet again (this may be the one-thousandth time). I know this is re-iterating some of the things that Kane just said.
1. Stance should be shoulder width or a little less. I'd say most people will feel more comfortable with a little less unless you have particularly wide hips.
2. Feet should be underneath the bar to about mid foot. Some people will have their shins maybe two inches from the bar but certainly no further than that. Closer is better.
5. Lumbar (lower back) should be set in a tight natural arch. The thoracic spine (upper mid/upper back) should be extended and the shoulders up and back. The scapula retracted and depressed (the shoulder blade pulled together and down).
3. Shoulders should be FORWARD of the BAR. So that the bar itself is in line with the scapula (shoulder blades). In other words the bar is underneath you scapula. Imagine a plumb bob hanging down form the scapula to the bar.
5. The hips should be as close to the bar as possible without the shoulders coming back. THIS is the one that most people miss and how they end up with their hips slightly too high or low, I think.
The back will NEVER be vertical on a conventional deadlift or even close to it.
The back will NEVER be parallel to the ground.
It WILL be somewhere in between.
I've noticed that a lot of people are shouting "your butt's too high" on this forum when it's not. I think that perhaps they are getting too caught up in this whole stiff-legged deadlift thing. You'll know it when someone is stiff-legging it. Don't get paranoid and start obsessing over high butts