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fuck winter.
yesterday we had 40 degrees....then...like 3-4" of freezing rain and snow last night. somebody pissed in allllllllllll of mother nature's cheerios this year. |
I agree winter sucks....sorry to hear mother nature has been such a bitch to you. Hope the weather changes for the better soon. :)
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It has been 60 degrees and sunny here the past two days. Just a slight breeze. Very comfortable outside. It is extremely rare for this time of year. Just thought I would rub that in. :)
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Tues March 4/2008
Weighed in at 168lbs today. I was wearing sweat pants instead of the usual shorts so that might have put it up a bit. I'm now officially heavier then my workout partner for the first time. ha Deads 60kg x 5 (stretch) 80kg x 3 (warmup) 100kg x 1 (weight acclimation) 115kg 3x5 This felt so much better today. Felt like I could have done a 5x5 of this no problem. Light Squats bar x 5 (stretch) 115lbs x 5 (warmup) 135lbs x 3 (warmup) 175lbs 3x5 Not bad, not bad. Dips bx x 5 (warmup) bw+35lbs 3x10 Back in the groove. Accessory Work Hanging Leg Raises 3x10 Tried them today with a bar behind my back. It stops you from cheating by swinging back but damn if you use any kinetics your back smashes into the damn thing. Got a bit of a bruise I think. Obliques bw 3x10 Just did the declined sit ups and touch each elbow to the opposing knee. Pretty tough to do hanging leg raises and straight to this but not impossible. OverHead Squat bar (20kg) x 5 I was just playing around with this. I'd like to change light squats to some other variation of squat and this overhead squat seems to add in a total body workout. Lots of upper back, shoulders, core, legs. Seems pretty sweet. Oh yeah, very good for ROM work too. Might try this next week instead of light squats. Diet 9:30am - 1.5 scoops whey and 2/3cup oats 10:30 - workout 12:15 - PWO - 1 scoop isolate 1:00 - chicken wrap 3:00- Tuna+spinach,olives, italian, mustard 5:00 - Not sure yet, maybe a chicken breast and some whole wheat pasta Thoughts Well this workout felt alot better then last time's workout. I think I'm finally getting back into my workout groove. I'll have to work back to what I was at before but it feels nice to feel natural at the gym again. IronWorker |
good to have you back....
and...F you ross :) |
A sense a little bit of tension amongst the ranks. lol
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:biglaugh:
I'm sure it feels great to be back in the gym...aside from being sore, rundown, sick.. :) Are you starting a bulking cycle now? |
Maybe just some weather envy :biglaugh:
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Gotta love Global Warming :)
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Thurs March 6/08
Squats (heavy day) - bar x 5 (warmup/stretch) - 135lbs x 5 (warmup) - 155lbs x 3 (weight acclimation) - 175lbs x 2 - 185lbs 3x5 Can't believe how heavy this felt. I'm hoping that my strength is going to start coming back quickly. This is down 40lbs from my peak. Bench (volume day) - bar x 8 (warmup/stretch) -115lbs x 5 -135lbs x 3(weight acclimation) -155bs 4x8 Rough. Pull-Ups bw 3x5 Oh boy. Calves 180lbs x 8 270lbs x 6 320 3x10 Pendlay Rows 30kg x 5 40kg x 5 (warmup/stretch) 50kg x 2 60kg 3x5 Hamstring Curls 60lbs x 8 85lbs 3x10 The only exercise that was easy today. Diet 9:30am - 1.5 scoops whey and 1 cup oats 10:45 - workout 12:15 - PWO - 1 scoop isolate 1:00 - chicken wrap 3:00- Tuna+spinach,olives, italian, mustard 5:00 - Burg with cheese ... yum Thougths Well Cancun really sucked the life out of me. My gym performance has dropped back *alot*. I'm hoping that getting over this sickness as well as getting back in the groove of going to the gym will allow my strength gains to come back quickly.... *crossing fingers* I got some serious work to do. Short term goals are basically to get back to my old PR's of: Bench: 205lbs 3x5 Squat: 225lbs 3x5 Dead: 125kg 3x5 I'd like to achieve all this within 4-6weeks. I think thats reasonable assuming I stay consistent. Oh ya, I am bulking now. Hopefully keepin it as clean as possible while still keeping my strength and mass gains as fast as possible. Gotta really fine tune this diet. IronWorker |
Good luck getting your strength back and enjoy the bulking! :weights:
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I thought you were bulking. It just seems like your calories were low. But I guess you're getting the diet back under control. My frame of reference is off too since I just finished doing a 3500-4000 cal bulk.
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My cals may seem a bit low but thats cause I only write down what i've eaten so far that day. On my last post I had another meal at 7 and 9. So that brings it up considerably.
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Thurs March 6/08
Well my strength is starting to come back but it seems like its gonna be a bit of a fight. Squats (volume day) - bar x 5 (warmup/stretch) - 135lbs x 5 (warmup) - 155lbs x 3 (weight acclimation) - 175lbs 3x8 Hammered these out. Fast reps. Seems oddly easy. Thank god. Bench (heavy day) - bar x 8 (warmup/stretch) -135lbs x 4(weight acclimation) -155lbs x2 -175lbs x 1 -185lbs 3x5 Barely, squeaked the last rep. I started too heavy... I'm hoping my healing rate is going to pick up now. I'll try 190lbs next week. DB Military Press 30lbs 4x8 Dips bw + 40lbs x9,8,7 A little too heavy but it was a heavy arms day. Hanging Leg Raises bw x 7,3,3 Abs were still sore as hell today. This was hurting too bad so I just stopped. Diet Lets just say I'm probably over my cals already and its 4pm and I got up at 11. lol Ouch. IronWorker |
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That's "heavy" day? Heavy is 1 t to 3 reps. OK so I'm overgeneralizing but the point is I see very few people really lifting "heavy" compared to what they consider volume....what you mean is is "heavier" but it still is a "I'm trying to get mass and strength with the same exercise" thing. It's not that it won't make you stronger. Haha, I think maybe some more people SHOULD read dinosaur training. Eric Cressey described it very well recently. He is so much better at a clever turn of phrase than I am so I’ll paraphrase him. It is like trying to ride two horses with one ass. So people are trying to ride a powerlifter’s horse with a bodybuilder’s ass. As he said, even if it does have striations in it, it won’t get the job done. If you are at the point where you NEED heavy versue “volume” days, then you may as well lift HEAVY on heavy day. Not that what you are lifting isn’t heavy it just isn’t HEAVY. |
Well I would like to get stronger but I would also like to gain mass. I guess right now my mass gains would be more of a priority then my strength gains. However, I find that making strength gains keeps me motivated to keep hitting the gym. I'm sure you can relate to that.
I guess I was also just assuming that if I was getting stronger, I'd be getting bigger. Do you think I'm at the point where I really have to seperate my training style for strength or size? If so, is there some good reading you can point me in the direction of to differentiate the two? Thanks again Eric, Oh yeah, I was originally coming on here to post up my lastest version of my workout plan. See what you think and reccomend some changes based on what I told you above if you want. Here is the general layout: Its based on a one week cycle for the main base lifts and the other lifts rotate in. Constant Lifts Sunday Volume Squat (3x8) "Heavy" Bench (3x5) Tuesday deads (3x5 progress until stall then switch to 2x5...then 1x5...then test new max) -light squat --> overhead squats perhaps (3x5 with very lightweight, mostly ROM work) Thursday "Heavy" Squat (3x5) volume bench (4x8) These lifts were run the same every week and would match up with either week A or B below. Week A Sun -Pull ups (3x5) -Dips (3x10) -calves (3x10) -ham curls (3x10) Tues -BB M.PRess (3x5) -P. Rows (3x5) -Hanging Leg Raises (3x10) -obliques (not sure yet) (3x10) Thurs -Pull Ups (3x5) -Dips (3x10) -calves (3x10) -ham curls (3x10) Week B Sun -DB M.Press (4x8) -Rows (3x5) -Hanging Leg Raises (3x10) -obliques (3x10) Tues -Dips (3x10) -Pull Ups (3x5) -calves (3x10) -ham curls (3x10) Thurs -BB M.PRess (3x5 Priority over volume bench) -Rows (3x5) -Hanging Leg Raises (3x10) -Obliques (3x10) IronWorker |
Well to try to answer all this I'm gonna have to be a pain in the ass as usual, so bare with me and my apologies in advance :biglaugh:
If you ask whether you need to separate right now I'd say no, you don't NEED to. But that begs the question of why your are actually attempting to separate in a way. And also why you present a two week plan, so on and so forth. I know that the question is coming from the whole beginner, intermediate, advanced as told by Rip. Believe me I probably understand all that better than anyone here and I've sort of wrote my own 'book' on it for myself. But you have to realize that when you take these static definitions of beginner, intermediate and so on they may be loosely applicable to an extended population but when you combine it all with a certain programming philosophy it becomes more of a "MODEL" than a training philosophy. So if you're going to suscribe to it you have to subscribe to the whole model. In other words if you're basing it on do I NEED to as this model would lead you to ask then why are you doing something more complicated than a standard type intermediate 5x5. Because if you think you only need middleground strength and mass stuff then there is not going to be a huge difference between a well run 5x5 and what you are doing now in a way. I see people trying to "adapt" the definitions into other programs and it just won't work very well. What it comes down to is you are trying to generalize it and while it it may still be very successful as many things can be it is probably no more successfull than sticking to the general model as presented. Or you can recognize that there is no REAL one size fits all model...there are only very loose and general tendancies. And, in fact, different people have a different interpretation of what a beginner/intermediate versus an advanced trainee needs. For instance while most would agree that 5x5 methods can work well for beginners/intermediates (but it's not the only thing of course) not many would subscribe to the notion that an truly advanced trainee needs to just do more and more volume and can only advance by loading blocks. At least when it comes to strength. Of course strength and mass are intimately related. So if what you are doing is working for you then I of course say keep doing it. But don't stymie yourself with definitions because you've already chosen to disregard the model so ALL that counts is what happens for you. That is the big problem I've realized with all of this stuff. I've been trying to wrap my head around it and just when I was kinda coming to it Cosgrove made it hit home: This is all about what is supposed to happen, what you expect to happen, what should have happened. BUT ALL THAT MATTERS IS WHAT DOES HAPPEN. Which should lead to the inevitable conclusion that results count not models. Do you need to change what you are doing if it is working? Of course not. But you also don't need to worry about someone giving you permission to step out of THEIR box. As far as my advice goes I actually would not suggest that you start doing heavy single and doubles for you heavy work at this point (as in maximal work) but you can certainly give yourself permission to step out of this sets and reps thing for heavy work. There are many ways to get stronger. But you know there is one that even the most advanced "forum gurus" hardly seem to recognize because we are so caught up in volume, time, density, etc. Well one of the best ways to get stronger is simply to lift heavy shit a bunch of times :). The reason people don't recognize it is they really never let go of the mass priority. They don't REALLY want to get strong. They want to get big but they want to also be able to impress people with their lifts. This is not accusing you this is to say what we base our learning on. So think about it. You get all these people preaching about getting strong to get big. BUT do they EVER really do strenght work? NAH. They are caught up in the mass thing and it's all a bunch of empty words when it comes down to it. A trick for you if you want to experiment...and I can explain how to use it further later on. That heavy bench you just did for 3x5 at 185 pounds. Take what you intend to do for 3x5, add 10 pounds to it and knock out some doubles or triples with it. If that is easy add a little more. With good rest periods. See how many doubles you can do BUT put the emphasis on quality. This is how you keep from overdoing it (one way anyway). You do as many good quality reps as you can using low rep sets with good long rest periods (rest as much as you need). If the technique goes to shit you are done. SO you are lifting a HEAVIER weight MORE times than you would have and you are getting quality volume. This is not maximal work but it is quality and heavier. It won't induce a lot of fatigue especially since you are using more fatigue management than you are now. It is certainly suited to an intermediate because I am only telling you to do what you can do well. Then you use your volume stuff to accumulate volume and work on hypertrophy. To manage time you can do some of your supplemental stuff as supersets. Just an idea. As far as further reading I can't just wave a magic wand and sum that up. It comes from too many different places. But to sort of get an idea on this kind of concept I'd say look up articles by Steven (or Stephan I can't remember) Plisk. |
Well I guess you're wondering why I'm deviating from the standard model. My reasoning for that is:
1) The original RIP program is very agressive and becomes difficult to heal in time for the next workout. I found that doing deads and squats on the same day was just asking for injury so the middle squat day was cancelled and deads were done just once a week. 2) I don't like having M.Press once a week but I don't really like putting it after bench either. So having this rotating cycle gives M.Press once a week on deads day when you're fresh and a dumbell volume day and a BB heavy day (where its prioritized over bench) the next week. I thought this made a nice balance. 3) Having Rows and Pullups on the same day would always really put a damper on whichever activity came second. So, these activites were made to rotate as well. I've basically just been trying to find a good balance of hitting the exercises often enough and not getting over fatigued. I find if I train for example bench really hard and then try to press then my press suffers or vice versa. I was trying to minimize the times when an exercise is sacrificed for another. If that makes sense... Now that I look at it, this program has gotten a bit complicated but its been modified slowly over time from the base rip program. I read over the 5x5 program again and now I'm interested in that. It might be time to just start fresh with a different program. I dunno. IronWorker |
Well of course the idea is when it becomes to hard to do the SS model and you have to periodize during the week you may as well go to a weekly periodized 5x5 (i.e. intermediat). BUT I wasn't really asking why you were deviating from the model. I have no problem with what you are doing! I don't care about models. The idea was to suggest that you were limiting yourself based on ideas of what you need to do rather than what you COULD do as long as there wasn't a downfall to it...such as injury potential.
The way you changed the program if perfectly fine as far as I'm concerned....I was trying to help you make minor improvements to THIS plan, not suggesting a new one :) I think you thought I was questioning why you evolved you program the way you did. But what I was saying was that you were had made one step out of the "box" so I'm just giving you that extra little push to lift the other foot out as well. You chose to make the plans you have from what you yourself noticed you needed. SO to my way of thinking you're on the right track and you don't need to doubt youself. 5x5 will help you manage fatigue but it won't give you much flexiblity. I don't really think your program has gotten too complicated. If it is good with you then it's good. And upper/lower may give you an easier way of mangaging things also so that is something to consider. Just ignore me if I'm confusing you :) |
What part of my program do you think is limiting myself "inside the box" still?
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get those ham curls out of there :)
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Any particular reason why? I thought it coudl be be a good addition to my deadlifts.
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replace them with something that works the ass too...glute ham raises...romanian deads...
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IW I explained what part specifically I thought was limiting. And I don't mean bad. Or ineffective. I ONLY mean that you could probably get your strength up faster.
Look at the first post on the subject. I give an example of something to do on "heavy" exercises. Then I give you an example of reading material to look for on that specific concept (although not exactly just the general idea). Basically what I mean is for you heavy exercises you could probably lift hevier weights without disrupting you program if you follow the basic guidelines I laid out. It is about 70 percent planning and 30 percent thinking and reacting to how things go on that particular day. |
Tues March 4/2008
Weighed in at 167.5lbs. Sounds about right judging by the little bit of fat thats creeping back around the mid section. Deads 60kg x 5 (stretch) 80kg x 3 (warmup) 100kg x 1 (weight acclimation) 120kg 3x5 I felt like I really nailed these. Hoping to make some solid gains on deadlifts real soon. Overhead Squats bar 3x5 These feel pretty great. They are a definate stretch and core workout even with this weight. Just trying to get the form down with light weight now and will slowly add more reps and then eventually load the bar a bit. Also, we were doing these with a snatch from about knee height between each rep. Front Squats bar x 5 (stretch) 65lbs x 5 95lbs x 5 115lbs 3x5 Well I used to really dislike front squats but I figured it was time to get some squat variation in my program. So, again I'm starting really light. I do these with a snatch grip (I think thats what it is?) because using the crossed over arm style I can't get my arms up high enough due to lack of shoulder mobility. Pull-ups bw+10lbs I reset back quite a bit but my ROM was awesome. Rock bottom lockout to touching my shoulders on the handles with every rep. Feels good. Dips bx x 5 (warmup) bw+40lbs 3x10 Got this out with some pushing. I have to make sure to get my full depth on these. Its easy to cheat. Accessory Work Calf Raises 180lbs x 8 270lbs x 6 330lbs 3x10 We're going to start doing 10lb jumps on these just to see what happens since we haven't really stalled out yet. Hamstring Curls 60lbs x 8 90lbs 3x10 Well looks like we might be cutting this exercise for something more glute oriented. Diet Well seeing as this was yesterday... I don't exactly remember. My diet wasn't that great cause I needed groceries. I have food now so it should get back on track now. However, I have to stop being so damn lazy and start keeping track of my totals. I keep track of my protein usually but everything else is just eyeballed. Thoughts The first solid workout since I've been back I'd say. Felt really good to get some confidence back. IronWorker |
As to a reply to Eric's response:
I know this isn't a maximally effective strength program. But like I said I'd really like to put on some mass right now. I'm 6' tall and 167.5lbs...thats pretty small. Also, its not like I won't be making strength gains as I get main, it may not be as effective as if I went purely for strength. My new plan is to stick it out with deads and squats on the current workout that they have because it seems to be coming back nicely. However, I think bench needs a serious reset. So, the plan for that is to drop back significantly and start doing a 5x5 twice a week. So, 10lbs per week. Then once we level off with that I was thinkin either drop to a 3x3 or just do the same weight for both workouts and only do 5lb/week increments. I dunno, still have to figure that out. IronWorker |
IW, I personally think Eric and Pity bring up good points for you to consider ie. you will get bigger and stronger on your posted routine, but some exercises are more conducive to this than others. Resetting the bench is probably a good idea at this time and go with a 5x5 approach (which I would ride until you absolutely cannot gain any more).
Anyway, good luck on getting your goals and let us know how things work out. :weights: |
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I was 6' and 167.5lbs not to long ago (still about 6' now :P), be patient :D |
So ya, the workout I posted will be followed with one exception. Bench is getting reset and 5x5 is being used. I'm looking forward to being bigger and stronger...real soon hopefully!
IronWorker |
Good advice from all. Just wanted to add that I'm also 6' and started out at 165. Now, 10+yrs later I'm 235. It takes time, don't rush.
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I'm lookin to hit 200lbs and be fairly clean in about 3 years. Thats my goal. We'll see where I go from there.
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Thurs March 6/08
Squats (heavy day) - bar x 5 (warmup/stretch) - 135lbs x 5 (warmup) - 155lbs x 3 (weight acclimation) - 175lbs x 2 - 195lbs 3x5 This didn't feel too bad. I'm going to keep up the 10lb jumps as long as I can. BB Military Press -bar x 5 -65lbs x 5 -85lbs x 3 -110lbs 3x5 Not too bad. P.Rows -30kg x 5 -40kg x 4 -50kg x 3 -62.5kg 3x5 Bench - bar x 8 (warmup/stretch) -115lbs x 5 -135lbs x 3(weight acclimation) -155bs 5x5 Pec was sore today. Felt like it was holding me back. Was much heavier then it should have been but I think it'll heal up before sunday. Hanging Leg Raises bw x 8,7,6 Side Bends 75lb DBs 3x10 Diet 9:00am - 1.5 scoops whey and 1 cup oats 10:00 - workout 12:00 - PWO - 1 scoop isolate 1:00 - cheese burg and vegetables 3:00- Chunky soup with can of tuna 5:00 - 1.5scoops protein shake and almonds 7:00 - Steak, rice, green beans 9:00 - 1.5 scoops whey in milk Thougths Well today felt pretty good overall other then bench. Bench was shitty because I think I gave myself a slight pec tear last bench day and I'm still healing. This was causing my left side to really lag and the light weight not seem that light! I'm thinking it should be good by next bench day...I hope anyways. Well I'll let ya know how that goes. IronWorker |
Thurs March 6/08
Just thought I should note that I drank last night and the night before and now I'm getting sick again. Bah, guess its my own damn fault. Squats (volume day) - bar x 5 (warmup/stretch) - 135lbs x 5 (warmup) - 155lbs x 3 (weight acclimation) - 175lbs x 2 - 185lbs 3x8 Tough push but I managed alright. Gonna keep these 10lb jumps until I can't do it anymore. Bench - bar x 8 (warmup/stretch) -115lbs x 5 -135lbs x 3(weight acclimation) -160bs 5x5 My pec is still hurting. It was better this time then last time but its making this bench much more difficult then it should be. Oh yeah, we may have done 6x5...we lost count so we did another set to be sure. Might have been 5x5 or 6x5 lol. After this point I'm pretty much drained and my workout went to shit. Pull-Ups bw+15lbs 2x5 bw +5lbs x 5 My energy reserves plummeted hard after bench and I just couldn't push anymore. Dips Skipped these cause I was way too ballzed up. Wah. Calves 180lbs x 8 270lbs x 6 340 3x10 No comment. Didn't do hams today either. Found out this gym doens't have a place for GHRs...weak. Diet noon - 1.5 scoops whey and 1 cup oats 1:30 - 1.5 scoops whey 2:30 - workout 4:00 - PWO - 2 scoops gainer 4:30 - McDonalds...oh no! Thougths Pretty disapointed with this workout. Haven't felt this bad physically/mentally after a workout for a while. I guess its my own damn fault for not eating/sleeping like I need to. IronWorker |
i had the double quarter pounder with cheese yesterday....for breakfast :) felt real not good afterwards :)
girlfriend still keepin ya awake? |
No, I'm used to the gf being around now but this sickness isn't helping. Coughing and not being able to breath through my nose makes it tough. Which in turn makes me sicker. wah
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Get better soon. :)
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Tues March 18/2008
Weighed in at 169.0lbs today. Seems my body is finding its set point of around 12ish% bf pretty quickly. Abs are all but gone now. I'm more sick today. Quite sick. Couldn't sleep last night despite being tired as hell....strange...which in turn made me sicker. I managed to pull off an OK workout but holy hell did I feel like ass after. Deads 60kg x 5 (stretch) 85kg x 3 (warmup) 105kg x 1 (weight acclimation) 125kg 3x5 I pushed it really hard on these... maybe harder then I should have. My back is pretty sore right now. I'm hoping it heals up before squats but things haven't exactly been going my way lately. I must have let my back round a slight bit on the last couple reps. Well either way, this is my last PR on these so I guess you could say I'm back up to my peak here. So thats one good thing. BB Military Press -bar x 5 -75lbs x 3 -95lbs x 2 -115lbs 3x5 Quite a push here but I'm getting close to my PR weight with these too. I'm going to look into making some 1.25lb weights that I can throw on so I can micro load. Seems 5lbs on these is just too much when I'm up near my limit. Overhead Squats bar 3x5 Really focused on explosiveness and getting way down under the bar. One of the hardest parts of my workout. What I've been doing for one rep is snatch the bar and squat it up then do one squat rep with it still above your head. That way it gets a little more leg work in there. If we go up in weight we'll probably drop te extra squat part. P.Rows bar x 5 30kg x 4 45kg x 3 55kg x 2 65kg 3x5 I never really feel like I'm getting any stronger on these but I guess I'm still moving up in weight so I'll take it. Hanging Leg Raises bx 1x9,1x8,1x7 Getting better at these slowly...however, I find that the hanging part of it is pretty hard on my shoulders for some reason. I've tried chin-up and pull-up style grip. Seems to be about the same either way. This exercise is tougher then it looks. Side Bends (DB) 50lbs x 5 60lbs 3x10 Well my obliques were still sore from last time with these and my energy was draining quickly at this point so I just stuck with a light weight. Hopefully I can get back into it next time. Diet 9:30am - 1 cup of oats, 1.5 scoops whey protein powder 10:30am - Workout 12:00 - PWO - 2 scoops gainer (~40g protein and 60g carbs I think...about 500 cals) 1:00pm - chicken breast in a wrap with spinach/pickles/olives and some veggies on the side 3:00pm - Spinach, can of tuna, mustard, italian dressing, almonds 5:00pm - 2 scoops gainer 7:00pm - I don't know yet...we'll see cause I have to go back to the school to work on a presentation. Wah! I Feel like crap. Thoughts The workout went pretty good considering the sickness. Really hoping I didn't tweak my back too badly. I'll let you know i guess. IronWorker |
The flu sux, really makes you appreciate good health. Esspecially when you want to train hard. I had it a few weeks ago.
MaRvO. |
I think training yesterday was a mistake. It drained me so bad that I think I just let the cold walk right in. Also, my back is sore as **** now. I think the gym tomorrow morning is pretty much out of the question unless I have the world's best sleep...which I certainly have no been having lately. I hate being sick.
IronWorker |
the gym will still be there man...get some rest. :)
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