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So how bout X-tend before and Whey after?

Whey is perfectly fine for pre. Especially if it's an isolate It's pretty much what I mainly use in terms of protein. And I've used all sorts of stuff. . What I was getting at is that the amount may be a little too much in the stomach. But if it is just the whey with water it shouldn't be a problem. If you were to put in some high GI carbs like dextrose and maltodextrin I'd cut the whey to about 15 grams.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.

Where can i get dextrose/maltodextrin. What sup or foods?

You'd get these in powder form. Dextrose is like glucose and is made from corn. Maltodextrin also. You'd have to order them online most likely. Places like bulknutrition.com, nutraplanet.com, trueprotein.com will have them. NOW FOODS is the brand to look for except for trueprotein, which is it's own thing. These would be sups to use for IMMEDIATELY pre.

Otherwise you'd want to get some carbs that were low to moderate GI (regular food) around 45 minutes to an hour before you workout. Or you can do both.

Like I said, check out the sticky.

Why not just stick with high protein foods ??? Too many protein shakes will just end up bloating you anyway ! Eat plenty of carbs/protein from generally healthy foods and you cant go wrong ! Perhaps buy the odd protein bar or two but dont waste your £££ on cheap protein substitutes !!

I assume you know what foods are high in protein ?

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dont use too much dextrose ... esp if your doing alot of cardio V as well, or your going to get into a catabolic state ! Not what you want.

Why can't he have some whey preworkout? And HOW in the world does dextrose put you in a catabolic state? Any carbs around your workout have the effect of limiting cortisol therefore staving off a catabolic effect. Much the same as protein but even more pronounced if consumed together.

As far as shakes bloating you I think people should speak for themselves. But I agree of course that the majority of protein and all nutrition should come from real solid food. There are places, however, where a shake is very effective and handy and some whey (which is just protein for God's sake) isn't gonna hurt the OP. You defenitely should not be replacing meals with it though and dextrose and malto should only be used around the workout. And they should be used together. Dex by itself SUCKS. You need the mixture.

But I agree of course that the majority of protein and all nutrition should come from real solid food.

WOW we actually agree on something lol !! But yeh " cake " dont use protein shakes as a meal substitute ! You could even have one at night to keep a constant supply of protein in your system !

Hey now Evan I wasn't the only one to disagree with you

But I don't think anyone is preaching extremes on anything. We've all been pretty conservative on the sup recommendations.