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  #11  
Old 06-21-2008, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by _Wolf_ View Post
because if you are doing a split and if you have large overlap it means your frequency of hitting each muscle group is more. does this make sense?
I started to say no, but I see what you're getting at. I still don't agree although maybe I should. If that's your reasoning, then why not do a squat variation every day of the week? (example)

EDIT: I guess it comes down to how much is too much. If you're doing Workout A and then Workout B the next day, you'll only most likely need a day of rest in between. So you'll be averaging 5-6 workouts a week. Is that not enough frequency?
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Old 06-21-2008, 09:43 AM
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I started to say no, but I see what you're getting at. I still don't agree although maybe I should. If that's your reasoning, then why not do a squat variation every day of the week? (example)
you could do that. why couldn't you?

olympic atheletes sometimes train 6 times a DAY for 6 days a WEEK!!!

it's all about optimizing recovery.

firstly, in no way am i saying splits are good. i would never do a split.

however, if lets say that someone really want to do a split, then this could be a good split:

Day 1: Back
Day 2: Off
Day 3: Chest and Biceps
Day 4: Legs
Day 5: off
Day 6: Shoulders and Triceps
Day 7: Off

Now, on back day you could do deadlifts, on chest day you could do flat and incline, on leg day you could do squats and on shoulders day you could do presses.

this does not bring frequency up to 2x a week (like how an upper-lower does) however, with good exercise selection you could bring frequency up to 1.5x

regarding your question about doing squat variations every day of the week, in practical programming, rippetoe outlines loading parameters for those who want to train 6x a week
Monday: Heavy
Tuesday: Medium
Wednesday: Light
Thursday: Heavy
Friday: Light
Saturday: Medium
Sunday: Off
This is supposed to work.

If you asked me what I genuinely think, id say:
1.) splits are my last choice
2.) squatting 2-3x a week is fine. more than that and i have to take special care of my joints + mobility
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Old 06-21-2008, 09:44 AM
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EDIT: I guess it comes down to how much is too much. If you're doing Workout A and then Workout B the next day, you'll only most likely need a day of rest in between. So you'll be averaging 5-6 workouts a week. Is that not enough frequency?
oh i didnt read that....he's doing it M/T T/F

OP: do this on a MWF basis...not a 4 day a week rotation. This is A/B/A/B/A/B/A/B, etc on a MWF rotation...

thanks for pointing that out to me, Ross.
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Old 06-21-2008, 09:51 AM
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I'm learning. I love that feeling.

I think that beginners are not at all good at optimizing recovery. That's why I don't like overlap.
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Old 06-21-2008, 09:54 AM
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I'm learning. I love that feeling.
me too (about learning)..i spent last week doing silly things. now i know not to do them.

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I think that beginners are not at all good at optimizing recovery. That's why I don't like overlap.
me either. i agree with you 100%.
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  #16  
Old 06-21-2008, 12:34 PM
EricT EricT is offline
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You guys are combining bodybuilding mentality with strength training mentality and thus confusing me greatly.

Are we talking about training movements are training bodyparts? Pick one. Combining the two modes of thought will always give you a hodgepodge.

Some general suggestions for your knees based on what you've said and a lot of assuming:

Do more posterior chain work. Lower the volume on deadlift and then supplement that with more pc work like romanians, pullthroughs, the aforementioned glute/ham raises. This is to strengthen the hams and activate/strengthen the glutes as I'll bet you are quad dominant. Pullthroughs, imo, would be the best thing to start with.

You'll want to work on hip mobility and check on ankle mobility. Lack of hip and ankle mobility are actually the two main causes of most knee problems.

You should try stretching the hip flexors and quads a bit. Foam rolling for both of them would be a good idea. You'll probably want an iliotibial band stretch (itb) and a piriformis stretch. As well as foam roller work for the ITB and TFL. [ info: http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle....4-021-training ]

Work on lumbar stability. Activating and strenthening the entire core. Do planks and other stability exercises.

Work on thoracic mobility.

For single leg work don't go straight to bulgarian squats. See if you can do static split squats. That is basically a bulgarian without the back leg elevated. Work on keeping the torso staight and the knee in line. Pick a stride length that feels good and see how you do with that. If you can't do that with movement try a split squat isometric hold. DROP THE LEG EXTENSIONS. They are probably doing more harm than good. Don't do leg press as this will just further the imbalance.

You can also try step ups.

Wolf is correct in suggesting you may be able to box squat. Heck, depending on the nature of your problems you may do better with front squats rather than back squats. But you may want to address some of these other areas first for a while. As he mentioned you have to evaluate whether you are donig those things which cause you pain CORRECTLY. Maybe if technique was corrected certain pain causing things would no longer be a poblem and those may be some things that would help to correct the imbalances. That's always the thing to check first before you just choose different things....

For more info on these kinds of things check out Mike Robertson and Eric Cressey. They will also point the way to other names to look for. Mike Boyle for instance.

Yes, all this has to do with knees
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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.

Last edited by EricT; 06-21-2008 at 02:33 PM.
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  #17  
Old 06-21-2008, 01:16 PM
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You're right, it was a hodgepogenous discussion. I think if we had clarified more beforehand, then the discussion would have been shorter. And more clear.
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  #18  
Old 06-21-2008, 03:59 PM
gong gong is offline
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thanks for the advice guys. I have read through several threads by Robertson and Cressey and they do provide a lot of good information.

My knee problem is a tricky one. When I do squatting movements I get a pain on my medial knee. I also have small floating bone fragments on the lateral side, that most of the time after a few reps, move around and get stuck or something and my lateral knee tightens up and the pain is unbearable. I just have to move the bony bit with my hand and all is good again. I can run and ride my bike, it's just weight bearing exercises that causes problems. I deadlift with smaller plates, maybe the size of 35's. This causes no problem whatsoever for my knees. I have done reps with about 110kg and no problems with the knees. I've seen a couple of therapists but no joy.

I foam roll my legs, itb and hips, although not on a regular basis. I should probably get strict with this.

I think I'll just keep doing my deadlifts and start working in some very light split squats and progress very slowly and see how I go. When the knee feels good enough, I'll start with light squats. I've tried this approach before, but I rushed it and started adding too much weight. This time I'll take it really slow.
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  #19  
Old 06-22-2008, 12:29 PM
EricT EricT is offline
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Good luck. Can't you have those frags removed?
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  #20  
Old 06-23-2008, 12:41 AM
gong gong is offline
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Originally Posted by Eric3237 View Post
Good luck. Can't you have those frags removed?
Thanks mate. Yeah, I'm sure I could get them removed, but I don't have private health insurance and don't want to spend the money on it right now. I'll probably get it done somewhere down the track.
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