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We actually PM'd back and forth so that part of the discussion isn't there. Short take was Ripp's program is the absolute bastard for someone who has trained those lifts before. Setting PRs mutliple times per week, handling 3x5 with record weight every workout, and worse there is no end in site until you keel over and give up. Holding weights equal it's a lot closer to the periodized 5x5 which is periodized for a reasion (i.e. do workload calcs for all of them and slash anything under 60-65% and see what I mean). A beginner can't really lift enough at first or push hard enough to kill themselves so Ripp's program has a nice foundation but really - someone who's trained those lifts for a while, that fast progression, constant beating, and workload will likely turn into a nightmare. At least a periodized model has a light at the end of the tunnel.

Anyway the jist was he thought the SF 5x5 would be even harder and he must have worked pretty hard and didn't want to experience that again. In reality, it's a lot easier for an experienced lifter except maybe at the very end and even then it's more tolerable. Progression is slower and although there are more total reps that count as work sets - in reality there's only 1 really heavy set of 5 and another of 3 each week.

I think that was where his resistance was coming from. Actually from the sound of him I gather he was beating his head into the wall with everything he had to continue on Ripp's setup. Just be glad you knew when to stop when the weights stopped as otherwise you can dig yourself into a nice hole that's pretty hard to rebound from (I actually did it as an experiment once and will never ever do it again).

Oh, I know! I was just kidding around. Anuj told me you'd pm'd. This after I've tried to convice him of the same thing you've just said.

Yeah. Sounds like you know how to explain this stuff a lot better than me! That was exactly what I was getting from him.

Oh, and Anuj, sorry to speak of you in the third person...

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.

BTW, I've done something similar and paid a price for it also.

Mine was that I and a partner deliberately wanted to see how long we could last and the relationship of volume/performance/time. Basically I ran a loading phase where I made very small jumps but kept volume very high and constant. In the final weeks the workouts were monumental efforts just to get the work done on every set. We were pretty toasted by week 5 and at week 8 we were falling asleep standing up, unable to concetrate, just walking zombies. Had to quit at that point. That's full overtraining vs. overreaching, hormonal profile in the shitter and cortisol through the roof I'd imagine. That took about 4 weeks to recover from enough to even have a decent feel good workout. I think for somewhere between 2-3 weeks we didn't even lift - really hurting and not functioning well, living in a slow cloudy head so to speak. When we got back in the gym it took a while to get back to where we could make enough progress to get our lifts back to where they were before this all started. So basically we chucked a multi-month block and a significant portion of a year. I've always been an experimenter and while this definitely added to my understanding and ability to manage fatigue and feel various levels all the way out it was exceptionally wasteful.

hey thanks guys.....

yes, Madcow2 HAS convinced me to do 5x5, but i have one question (and if it HAS been asked before, sorry): i have a shoulder injury and i'm afraid to do flat bench presses...but i'm cool with inclines...what should i do...?

thanks again ppl...

Anuj

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Do inclines then or some moderate incline angle that's comfortable. So inclines M/F and Military or push press on Wed. Bust your ass on that and rows, do some shoulder rehab exercises and get it back in shape.

^^^^

ok cool...but OH Pressing isnt good for my shoulder problem... i have no qualms about doing them as such, but i'm just trying to be cautious so i dont screw up my shoulders again...

Anuj

So you can't press straight out in front of you (90 degrees) or over your head (0 degrees) but you can press between those points (45 degrees)? I'm not sure I follow your injury here. I'm not exactly a shoulder expert but I'm not sure what would bother flat and overhead that wouldn't be used in the incline.

I think, although I'm not sure, that Anuj has loose shoulder joints or shoulder instability.

If you're just recovering from a dislocation that resulted in injury then I can see and would recommend caution on benching in general. Overall I don't think benching is a problem. By the way you described you're previous injury it seems like a problem relating to external rotation. I.E. the joint is loose and the rotator cuff/shoulder blade muscles are weak and so on the way down during overhead pressing your shoulder sort of slips backwards (elbow forward). I'm I getting this right, Anuj?

If that is the case then what Macdow is saying makes sense. If your can press at 45 degrees then straight in front of you shouldn't be a problem either. But I'm not a shoulder expert either!

LOL, Anuj, why the fuck would you think me of all people would say that's UNDULATING?!?! I said to choose one in the shoutbox.

Christ, if you're gonna say the "he said" thing, make sure I SAID IT!

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