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5 x 5 is excellent as long as the correct movement patterns and technique has been established prior to the heavy loads. And you should DEFINTELY have a spotter in this phase.

I've done a few maximal strength phases with 5 x 5 as the foundation of the workout and made some nice gains...only thing you have to be aware of is that your body quickly detrains in strength endurance.

For a typical hardgainer, I might recommend a few back off sets at the end of the workout to at least maintain strength endurance. Eg. 1 x 20 or 2 x 15

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The typical person who would embark on a DFT 5x5 and maybe follow it with a DFHT is probably looking to get as strong and inhumanly huge as possible, not maximize their ability to row a boat for hours or their ability to compete...

That being said your concerns are why people periodize their training. Now I'm all for non-linear periodization schemes but if you try to take a program like the ones in this sticky and apply these methods you could set yourself up for failure. Not that I think theirs anything wrong with your suggestion of a few back off sets...it may help with recovery if nothing else but if maintaining strength endurance or simply to maximize energy stores is really someones goal then they would be better off to apply this training as part of a traditional linear periodization scheme with a competitive or endurance cycle. Or to try a non-traditional periodized scheme.

In general trainees wanting mass think about muscle, strength, and power.

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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.

This routine is well founded, tried and true. OLY users often lift according to this sort of combo each workout: press, pull, squat of some kind and in some exercise/variety. It's good for the strength building phase. But after awhile you may get joint issues unless your form is very good. Also minimalist training, if you're into bodybuilding vs. power or OLY lifting, palls too. Still, I'd recommend it.

I don't know if this is in here or not, but I'll post anyways.

A complete description of Bill Starr's 5x5 authored by Madcow here

Awesome info that EVERYONE should study. Goes through all the different types of 5x5 (single and dual factor periodization), how to perform the lifts, results from other bodybuilders across the board, and much more.

Warning: It is not the usual 5 day split workouts that have a hundred and one isolation variations to hit the same muscles. If you like DB kickbacks, concentration curls, "feeling the burn", or hitting your "outer, inner, upper, and lower pecs"..Exit now.

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I can be found at
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But why can't I do DB kickbacks with the pink dumbbells, or "feel the burn" while hitting my inner pecs by doing machine flyes or curls on the Smith machine? I'll do them 5x5!

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Well, the Blog's (finally) back (again!):
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Here is my newly-created World of Warcraft Blog:
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lol

here's a link to a whole bunch of AMAZING 5x5 variations......please read through each one... VERY interesting...

http://users.tpg.com.au/ayianni/5x5/...rammeOrder.htm

Anuj

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this is a SF 5x5 spreadsheet

Attached Files

Bill Starr 5x5 for Intermediate Lifters with Olympic Lifts.zip (2.7 KB, 28 views)

What would a good progression be for a loading cycle of DFHT?

Say for Workout 3 (ME Day) you have:
1./// Flat Bench: 5 RM (Work up to a 5 rep max with pinkey's on the rings. This means doing a few doubles and singles before attempting your 5 RM)

I'm doing a 3 week loading cycle and my 5rm going in is say 225. What would my Workout 3's Flat Bench look like?

Week 1 220
Week 2 225
Week 3 230

Would I try and progress more drastically (say 10-15lbs instead of 5)?

Do I start off with my 5RM from the get go or do I reduce it a bit at the start?

How many sets should I be doing to work up to my 5RM (ie 5-6 sets: 1-2x3, 2x2, 1x1, 1x5?)

ps. I'm posting this because I'm finding that my biggest problem is planning out the progression for my routines and figuring out what my starting weight should be

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Well, there's a lot of different things you could do for the DFHT. If you feel more comfortable, you could start loading with 5x5 and go from there. That may be a better choice for you until you start to get used to the heavy volume compared to your current HST cycle. It would probably be easier for you to pick a weight that was in the middle of your HST cycle that you nailed 3 x 5 with, and do 5 x 5 with..Follow?

In my opinion Kane, as I've said before, your first loading phase should be managable until you get used to it. I would NOT recommend starting off with 5 lbs less than your true 5 RM. I would start off DFHT by backing off of your maxes slightly, and building from there. This program WILL allow you to get stronger the longer you let it run its course.

Your first loading phase should allow you to hit every set, every rep. After your first deload (1-2 weeks loading, 1 deload for your first go at it), you will have a very good picture of what you can and cannot do. Powerlifting is about what you can do in THAT particular day. Sometimes more than your RM, sometimes less.

My advice is to do get a starting base. Work up to a conservative 5-6 RM for bench. I'm not advocating a walk in the park with 185 lbs either. It's ok if you only get 205 x 5..That's a managable start. All the supplemental lifts that accompany your major lifts in this program will push your max a lot higher.

Depends on you. If I was working up to a 5 RM of 225 lbs, I would do something like this:

135 x 10 (slow reps)
135 x 10 (faster since your more warmed up)
155 x 6
185 x 3
205 x 1
225 x 5 (working set)

First set is slow to warm up your body since it's your first lift. The second set is a lot faster since you're warmed up to get the blood pumping. Third set is final warmup set, regular comfortable tempo. Last two sets are acclimation sets, essentially preparing your joints for the heavier load.