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  #11  
Old 03-08-2007, 06:52 PM
EricT EricT is offline
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Look, it just doesn't matter. Soreness is a side-effect of trauma not an indication of growth. That is certainly not the way to work you bi's but as for as what you did what matters is if it represents more stimulus than what you did before. It never ceases to amaze me that PROGRESSION, the most simple and basic concept related to resistance training, is the number one thing nobody seems to mention when they talk about soreness, muscle growth, etc.

You just have to progress in some way. You can't keep progressing for very long and not grow. Hell that applies to almost everyone but elite olympic weight lifters with freaky genetics....and most of them too.
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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.

Last edited by EricT; 03-08-2007 at 07:32 PM.
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  #12  
Old 03-08-2007, 07:08 PM
mokaid123 mokaid123 is offline
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thx all
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  #13  
Old 06-05-2007, 02:46 PM
johnson3034 johnson3034 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric3237 View Post
Soreness is a side-effect of trauma not an indication of growth. That is certainly not the way to work you bi's but as for as what you did what matters is if it represents more stimulus than what you did before.
But in this case soreness is def. a sign of overworking which will kill any growth. I had a problem overtraining for a long time.. the only way I started to be able to tell if I didn't go too hard was to wait and see how sore I was the next few days. So yes, it is not an indication of growth; but it can be used to measure the right intensity, length of workout, and routine.
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  #14  
Old 06-05-2007, 03:06 PM
EricT EricT is offline
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Sorry but that's not how this kind of soreness always works. You body can adapt to soreness. That is, as you repeat the same stimulus over time you stop being as sore from it and after awhile you may not be sore at all. The DOMS is as much a result of the NOVELTY of a stimulus, i.e. a new exercies, more volume than you're used to, etc. The body has mechanisms in place that adapts to this.

If I haven't done bicep curls in a year and then all of a sudden I do three heavy sets of 10 chances are I'm going to get some DOMS. Maybe fairly severe depending on what type of curl. So my response should be that I've overworked my biceps. Doubtful. I've introduced a lot of trauma but I guarantee I can repeat it next time and get a lot less sore and then another time and no soreness. All this after increasing the load and/or reps.

Or maybe my bi's are sore and in between bicep workouts (not that I'm one to dwell on bicep curls it's just an example) I do some very light low intensity work and the soreness goes away and doesn't come back. Whoa! What is that? Just another reason why DOMS is misleading. All this come from my own experience many times it's not just something I'm regurgitating although you can read about this stuff.

Or maybe I do something new that makes my glutes very sore. So sore that the next time I do squats they are still sore. But I do the squats with no problem and my ass doesn't get any more sore. In fact it's less sore now. Hmmm...

On the other hand if I do something that makes my glutes and/or hams so traumatized I can't walk or sit properly for a week afterward that is just me being stupid. A trainee should know better than that in the first place and should not need external cues to tell him. Of course I recognize that something can sneak up on you and I also know that some people get severe and unreasonable DOMS all the time. But I'd venture a guess that a lack of continuity is a culprit there.

When people SEEK to become sore they are simply upping the anty each time in a way that represents enought new novel stimulus to cause DOMS whether this be constantly increasing the volume or changing up exercises. Whereas if they were to progress slowly and systematically with one protocol the soreness would eventually subside even though at first they were VERY sore. And we are not even getting into training age.

On the other hand to stop doing something every time you get a lot of DOMS...that's not a good response either. I understand what you are saying about having severe debilitating DOMS that would actually prevent you from working out but that is extreme and would usually stem from trainees who have an overblown sense of what is necessary in the gym in the first place.

I would NOT use soreness or lack of soreness as a gauge of what I should or should not be doing in the gym. It is not reliable in that sense. You are not going to overwork from one workout, for instance. You may get overly sore but growth comes from recovery and adaptation. Just because you are really sore doesn't mean you can't adapt. What would kill growth would be the continual exposure to a workload that you couldn't recover from and LACK of PROGRESS is going to be a primary symptom long after soreness has gone away.

That's right. Even if you are continually overtraining your body is still continuing to recover to some degree. DOMS is not a symptoom of chronic overtraining. Aches and pains, strains and sprains, they are symptoms.

Soreness is just not a good gauge of what to do. I put it right up there with people who gauge their workouts by whether they puked or not or their level/lack of fatigue.

Last edited by EricT; 06-05-2007 at 03:57 PM.
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