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Cocotits 06-22-2012 09:36 AM

Strength routine and problems.
Hey. So I started doin this new routine for me. Something comprised of someone's post I read here and I was reading some about the powerlifting side. Came up with a 4 day workout comprising of (actual lifts most recent day):

Tuesday 1,Wednesday 2, Friday 1,Saturday 2

Bench press-
Squat full-185x8,205x6,205x6,215x4,215x5
Bent barbell row-
Full dips-
Abs heavy- crunch machine

Dead lifts-
Standing barbell press-
Pull ups-
Barbell curl-
Glute hams-Nope!

Never done glute hams n I couldn't do it. Left gym at end of the day. Will try again first time is really awkward anyways.

Also this is the gunna be the beginning of the 3rd week on Tuesday.
And the last time I did squats it was hurting even with warm up weight. I don't understand why. I'm doing full ass to the grass bottom out squats which is new for me. Tryin to keep my knees from going too far past my toes. Got hella sore first few times but now it's hurting at the top of my legs in the very front of my hips when I perform the work out and also later days after still hurts.

Did i hurt something what should I do? I really don't want to stop squats I wanna keep moving to get big!

I am 5'11" 172 hovering and came off my last cycle early november and have been natural ever since. Weighed 185 solid when I came off. I dropped to 162 and did not work out again for 5 months till the beginning of April. I have mixed n matched a few routines since then. This routine is what came about after I read the sticky "why aren't you growing?" which opened my eyes I a lot of problems I've been having. Makes sense. And this is why I want to do full squats to now.

I try and eat as much as I can. Calories range from 2500 on a very low day to 4200. When I am at work I can keep a steady 3500-4000 calories easy for those 5 days. Days off its hard to stop and eat. Protein can range from 150-300.

Advice, help, criticism all welcome.

Cocotits 06-22-2012 04:52 PM

No one?

iron_worker 06-23-2012 09:54 AM

So is your main question about your soreness? Sounds like it's just a flexibility issue. Trying stretching out in the off days and don't squat deeper than you can control the weight. Don't get me wrong, I think squatting A2G is great (and I do it too!) but if you lose control of the weight and you're just stretching/tearing the crap out of your muscles then it's not going to benefit you.

Do NOT worry about your knees going ahead of your toes. That is complete BS if you ask me. DO worry about your knees not bowing in or outwards too much. This can cause problems.

I'm thinking you maybe are limiting your knee range of motion and having to make it up in the hips and this is why you're getting so sore. Soreness from squats is normal (especially the first few times or if your volume is high) but it should not be painful. There is a fine line between soreness and muscle/tendon tears/strains.



Cocotits 06-23-2012 11:37 AM

Yea that was my main question. I did squats last night. Two sets of 135x10 and I felt like I could push it and put 225 on did that 5 times but was way sore after that. And stopped squats after that. Actually is sore to just lift my legs to walk. So I have been stretching them a bit during the day. I am in very good control of the weight when I move through the squat. But maybe I don't understand completely what you mean by losing control of the weight.

When I am all the way down my ass is touching my ankles. So I think I am using complete rom for my knees. And I do try and keep them nice and straight and not bowing in or out. Only times that happens is heavy weight a few reps in and I focus on it.

What do you think about the routine ?

iron_worker 06-25-2012 01:15 PM

If it's your first few times doing full ROM squat then yes you will be sore. Really sore. It's the "king" of exercises for a reason: to do it properly takes a huge amount of strength and control by a large portion of the muscles in your body.

What I mean by losing control of the weight is if you are "dive-bombing" the weight or allowing it to "bounce" you out of the hole. This can be very hard on muscles and joints and I don't recommend it for anyone who doesn't have their technique perfectly honed and understands the risks of squatting that way.

Also you can lose control by allowing your lower back to round when at the bottom ... the dreaded butt wink! Based on your description of the soreness I don't think it is this but who knows.

Some people also tend to push off of their toes which is bad. The weight should be over your centre of gravity and pushing down through your heels. Dive bombing the weight can make this problem occur since the added momentum of the weight tends to fold the lifter over at the low back.

Some people also try to gain more "depth" by leaning their upper body forward. This also usually causes lower back rounding (and extra strain) and can shift the weight to your toes.

A video of your squat would help a lot.


Cocotits 07-01-2012 06:10 AM

Ok. From that description I don't think that's the problem. My wife may have the video I asked her to take of me. What's the procedure to add videos?

And regarding my routine. How does that look to you IM?

Cocotits 07-01-2012 06:10 AM


Bluecore 07-05-2012 04:01 PM

For the squat, what you want is a nice controlled motion. I disagree that using the momentum out of the bottom is in and of itself a bad thing, it actually helps me initiate hip drive. Squatting below parallel in any situation is ideal, but you can only go so deep before having activated all the muscles possible for the motion, making going further deep less beneficial (and will prevent you from putting up heavier weights, which should be the goal along with activating the most amount of muscles and CNS activity). I do agree that "dive bombing", which to me means squatting down at an accelerated rate rather than a smooth, controlled motion is bad and you will eventually hurt yourself that way, especially if you aren't an advanced power lifter.

You want to establish your back angle and knee position about one third of the way down and it should remain that way through the whole squat until you come back UP to that point and begin to stand straight up again. If you're squatting low bar, knees should be out (left to right) in a straight line with your toe (this is because your toes are pointed out, more so than in an olympic squat), and in any kind of squat they should be at LEAST a little bit in front of your toes (more so in an olympic squat since your toes are essentially parallel and the knees have to go somewhere in order to maintain the correct back angle and keep the bar over the middle of the foot). Too much deviation from left to right or too far out in front will hurt you over time. Like IW said though, there is a huge difference between soreness and pain.

How is your post workout nutrition? You may just not be eating enough.

Bluecore 07-05-2012 05:02 PM

Oh and one more thing about the butt wink, in case that turns out to be the problem. To correct mine, I had to think in my head that my first first movement out of the lockout at the top is with my hips, not a bending of my knees. When I thought of it that way, it was way easier for me to establish my knees out position, and to more easily get them where they needed to be relative to my toes. That made my back angle correct through the entire squat. A big problem I had was actually what IW warned you against which is leaning too far forward, in that I was actually establishing TOO vertical a back angle (I'm talking low-bar position here) and it was putting too much stress on my groin (upper upper adductor to be more precise) because I was essentially squatting straight down. If you look at the angles illustrated by Rippetoe, if you squat LITERALLY straight down from the starting low bar position, there is no way your back angle can be correct. In order to keep the bar over the middle of the foot the entire time, the hips have to pivot first, or you WILL lean forward to the point where the bar itself is too far forward.

Doing this by yourself is very hard, because you can't see yourself squat, and it's even harder if you work out with someone who doesn't know what they're doing.

ChadBroChill 07-09-2012 06:24 PM

I agree with Bluecore. I had the same problem with my squats and deadlifts. Come to find out I wasnt doing them properly and it was only a very small change made a huge difference. And it takes time too. I used to to have a bad shoulder problem that would keep me from doing any kind of bench routine. I researched and learned how to fix it and strengthen it, now it never bothers me. It took awhile too. Keep at it. Knowledge is key :)

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