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  #11  
Old 08-19-2007, 04:22 PM
EricT EricT is offline
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Absolutely. And I wasn't ignoring what you said about proper form and technique . So many just don't want to get that learning proper form and technique and heavy weights are MUTUALLY exclusive so I like to beat that dead horse a lot so it sinks in. Also I there is simply a tendancy for people to think that the PS and the shrug are the same thing except for the PS you "cheat". But they really are two different things and your shoulders popping out are what's bound to happen with this haphazard approach, like we both said.

Now I think for the most lifters they will get plenty of strength in the traps without power shrugs or shrugs and usually the upper traps are so strong and dominant to start with you are not going to need a lot of specific shrugging type work. What I like about the power shrug though is that it has some carry over to deads and such.

The only carry over regular shrugs will have to deads is if your upper traps are really unusually weak so that you can't keep the deadlifthing weight under control with the shoulders. I hate it when people say shrugs help with the "lockout" as if locking out a dead involves a shrug. The only way shrugs really help is when weak traps are a limiting factor in general and this is not going to be the case too often.

I think I've read Madcow's points about it before. He also correctly warns about using light weights (relatively speaking).
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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.
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  #12  
Old 08-19-2007, 04:35 PM
jwright715 jwright715 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric3237 View Post
Absolutely. And I wasn't ignoring what you said about proper form and technique . So many just don't want to get that learning proper form and technique and heavy weights are MUTUALLY exclusive so I like to beat that dead horse a lot so it sinks in. Also I there is simply a tendancy for people to think that the PS and the shrug are the same thing except for the PS you "cheat". But they really are two different things and your shoulders popping out are what's bound to happen with this haphazard approach, like we both said.

Now I think for the most lifters they will get plenty of strength in the traps without power shrugs or shrugs and usually the upper traps are so strong and dominant to start with you are not going to need a lot of specific shrugging type work. What I like about the power shrug though is that it has some carry over to deads and such.

The only carry over regular shrugs will have to deads is if your upper traps are really unusually weak so that you can't keep the deadlifthing weight under control with the shoulders. I hate it when people say shrugs help with the "lockout" as if locking out a dead involves a shrug. The only way shrugs really help is when weak traps are a limiting factor in general and this is not going to be the case too often.

I think I've read Madcow's points about it before. He also correctly warns about using light weights (relatively speaking).
Thats a good dead horse to beat.

I only implemented any kind of shrug after i cut my deadlift volume, and even then, it was limited.

And now that you mention it, i have seen a person doing deads in my gym, but at the end of the rep, after successfully deadlifting the weight, he did some bastardized version of a shrug. It wasnt pretty.
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  #13  
Old 08-19-2007, 05:02 PM
EricT EricT is offline
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Yeah..people do that. It's a similar thing to hyperextending the back to lockout. Although I've read some people advocationg putting a shrug at the end to add to the trap emphasis. A better way is to do snatch grip like I was saying before which increases the work on the traps and entire upper back plus core in general. It also increases the distance the bar has to travel so it's a good all around way to train the dead and it is not JUST specific to people needing help off the bottom like dl's from a deficit are.
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  #14  
Old 08-20-2007, 08:13 AM
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widdoes2504 widdoes2504 is offline
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I have seen a few people do that with the deads and I have to admit I used to do that as well until I pinched a nerve in my neck. Hurt like hell and I have not done that particular move again.
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Old 08-20-2007, 08:22 AM
EricT EricT is offline
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Yeah I think what happens is that people finish the lift and then want to shrug so they jut the neck forward without realizing it so you end up with neck injury. Also if you are not using straps and doing heavy deads as your grip begins to fade you will have a tendency to hitch the shoulders unconciously and put the whole shoulder neck region in a bad position from which to shrug...further adding to the chance of injury.

When it comes down to it shrugs are something you need to be careful with and do correctly and deadlifts are too thus combining them can really assure you won't do either perfectly. There is a big difference between a power OL movement which has a shrug as a component of it and shrugging with deadlift. The weight is much lighter for the OL lift since the limiting factor is what you can clean not what you can get off the bottom. This gives you more wiggle room then what you get with heavier slow movements.

I also hate the idea of fatiguing the upper back in general while doing deads. You need to upper back strong to hold the shoulder and chest back and failing that to buffer the spine from injury.
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  #16  
Old 08-20-2007, 01:39 PM
jwright715 jwright715 is offline
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I love the feeling i get in my upper back after a day of heavy deads. But deads are always done as first excercise for me.
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