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Hypertrophy and Strength - Not so Different



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  #1  
Old 07-30-2006, 04:10 PM
EricT EricT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madcow
The nervous system is what recuits your muscles and to do heavy work it fires hard (rate coding). So knowing that workload is a proxy for stimulus to the muscles and hypertrophy, getting those extra reps by going to failure becomes particularly expensive. Not that failure is bad but simply that rate coding skyrockets and that impacts fatigue and accumulated fatigue is overtraining - it is not an accident that failure or HIT type protocols default to low volume and stress recovery (they just didn't realize it wasn't the muscles that were failing, it was their nervous system redlining i.e. failure is not a stimulus unless you are trying to get better at the neural level and that is a viable way to load the muscles progressively with more weight but it isn't as direct as Mr. Mentzer seemed to think).
I'm particularly glad you said this part. It's something I (and others) have tried to tell people a million times that come on and say I just can't work my muscles more than once a week or they can't progress (or even less) cuz they won't recover and 90% of the time it turns out they think they have to hit failure or beyond...not just HITites but others under the general impression this is necessary. It can be a useful tool but it is only that: a tool that must be managed and used properly.

You get tired of saying it...your muscles are fine it's your nervous system that is fried.

*Edit* By the same token I recall someone complaining how his muscles would stay sore for like a week or more. Nothwithstanding the fact that you CAN work a sore muscle I would think that someone who never worked anything more than once a week or less would have bad recovery on the muscular level
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If you act sanctimonious I will just list out your logical fallacies until you get pissed off and spew blasphemous remarks.

Last edited by EricT; 07-30-2006 at 04:25 PM.
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  #2  
Old 07-30-2006, 04:39 PM
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Ant Mitchell Ant Mitchell is offline
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this was all extremely helpful. much appreciated
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Old 07-30-2006, 05:18 PM
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Madcow2 Madcow2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Eric3237
I'm particularly glad you said this part.
Thanks, that's a huge point. The real essential meat is the first two posts. Once you understand mechanical work (the balance between enough weight (intensity/%1RM) and enough work) and then the nervous system - that leads naturally right to dual factor theory and the realization that certainly we are working the muscles but this type of work is a major impact on the nervous system. And that is where the 2nd balance must be struck and leads to programing. Otherwise we'd all pound the living shit out of ourselves, heal up and do it again and again - heck Mentzer would be right and we'd just rachet up the volume to where we could recover session to session (and it would be high not low since the muscles repair relatively quickly and there isn't much damage in the consistently trained). But that doesn't work too well in practice and the nervous system is really the constraint to this type of approach.

I honestly think the first two posts are basically a good beginner block for understanding training and what exactly is going on. If people can absorb those and get them - they will be light years ahead and no doofus bodybuilding magazine or anything else can bullshit them.
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Old 08-03-2006, 05:36 PM
fz1 fz1 is offline
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This is a great thread. Thanks for posting this
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Old 04-07-2008, 02:05 PM
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iron_worker iron_worker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric3237 View Post

You get tired of saying it...your muscles are fine it's your nervous system that is fried.

Well you did say this earlier. So maybe they have been told that.

BTW, I'm just arguing for discussion's sake. I don't claim to know near as much as most of you.

IronWorker
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